35018 British India Line

Well you have one person here who was not around "back then". I was born in 1982!

 

Like I say, paint is a minor thing in the grand scheme of things, and I think most would agree it's bar far positive words that she's back! But there's a good number of people who do care, and if you don't, it's unfair to put those peoples opinions down ("stuff the paint" means "screw your opinion" in blunt terms). If the NYMR painted all their locomotive, stock and stations in pink and yellow because it's more colourful and the "normals" like it, would you still say stuff the paint then and deprive all the enthusiasts who savour the sight of structures in their historic colour schemes etc?

How about the people that don't give a damn about historical accuracy give it a rest and accept some people do care?

 

My memories of the Bulleid pacifics on the Bournemouth line in 66 and 67 was that most were a sort of matt black colour with the odd bit of very dark green in places. A nice shiny black would be an improvement.

 

I think there might be a tendency for most of those who don't remember steam personally to be more in favour of seeing the engine turned out in a different scheme, even if the layout is prototypical. But then, steam back then was filthy and you could barely tell what colour they were, or that they were in a shabby condition. I know historical accuracy is emotive because some people recall a favourite from years ago.

I would be more aghast if it was an engine like 60532 Blue Peter, or 60009 Union of South Africa, being done in something other than Brunswick green, even if I've found Darlington green goes rather well. Especially, when till now they have been prototypical in appearance, especially an engine like Union where its been green in all its preserved lifetime.

I think there are two other reasons that matter. Firstly, there are others that are prototypically accurate, meaning that one is out there that does fit that criteria, so why not experiment and do something different with another. The charge then, if not, they would all be the same, just to hark back for a by gone era and not allowing for what happens today.

The second, is that this is not British Railways. It is West Coast Railway Company using steam engines restored to traffic. As a result they could have their own company livery, which Galatea seems to have adopted, but then others get turned out in Black too. As a result, they don't have to follow the rules of British Railways and they are quite able to do so.

However, as I said before - this is all academic - only the enthusiast with knowledge know and might conjecture. To all others, its a nice steam engine, perhaps that's enough after all.

Off Topic:

Diesel fans tend to go for heritage diesels. The general view being that from class 66 onwards resulted in the death of decent stuff. Even so, some are making a bit of a following, class 68 being popular.

By and large the diesel fans, even younger ones who didn't see much of them, read all the mags, forums and stuff and go for things such as 37's, Deltics, 31's, Peaks, etc... being all ex-BR and all tend to be preferred most in BR Blue.

I've often deliberately played devils advocate with some asking them why they like something like a class 37 in small logo BR blue, when they spend their time with class 66s on the scene today. Some might like them as they have seen them in preservation, but for many its similar logic to my dad likes them so I do, just as my dad supports *insert name* football club so I do too. Some elements of the media that serve this market also reinforce the classic look at older traction, although some like 68 are giving choice and some like 37s still soldier on with a cult following.

When you look at what liveries are applied, some are done as a what-if, ie a class 50 in Intercity, but with class 66 effectively dominating the main railway scene today and different liveries they have, with diesels the main focus for engines is that its something other than a 66, rather than the colour it is.

 

They're your words not mine, it's your interpretation. What it does mean and what I tried to convey was MY OPINION, that the paint is a minor detail, the engineering is the main player and ............historical accuracy ?? I reckon the team at Carnforth have done a damn good historically accurate job getting BIL to the state it's in today.

And if they put it on The Dalesman with the young lady firing...........I'm booking. (or even without the young lady firing)

 

One of the reasons I've done a model of this engine too is that its a Merchant Navy running in 2017 that has had improvements done to it. Its got boards on the ladders to prevent access unless needed, the coal capacity has been increased as well, since it arrived at Carnforth, not to mention all the TPWS, OTMR and things added. Then its unique differences such as the pipework and it really is an engine that is returning to steam having had some serious thought into how it would work and then excellent engineering to deliver it. It looks very impressive and that's from someone who normally follows engines from much further north...

The paint makes it interesting, but it isn't everything...

 

Your memory plays tricks on you. The real 34052 at Basingstoke on the last Friday of steam working. Your comment is a disservice to all us amateur loco cleaners!

 

If you say so. But as the way I read it, it's an attack on the people who disagree with you in the way it's conveyed. I fully respect your opinion and West Coasts choices. My gripe is people that say "give it a rest" when they need to look in the mirror. That's not directed at you specifically btw, just at this thread in general.

 

That's a very selective and unrepresentative view of history. The history of steam locomotives on the mainline is roughly 200 years long, and from photographic evidence, the period "back then" in which they were more commonly "filthy" was about ten years of that. For the vast majority of the rest of their history (both before and after the 1960s), they were kept somewhere between clean and spotless. It beats me why, with two hundred years of history to commemorate, anyone would wish to focus particularly on that baleful decade.

Tom

 

Some people like a bit of dirt

 

It would be very much easier to respect a WC company policy shift towards in-house livery for steam locos if well realised, than simply a two fingered salute from the gaffer towards perceived critics.

 

Probably the best post on this whole thread! A photo speaks a thousand words and this is a an interesting comparison to put side by side to the photos and video footage of BIL out on test this last month.

 

|I cannot wait until 71000 is released, I assume that it will break the internet, although as its not WCRC I suspect many will be quiet.....

 

I think the section in bold highlights the key issue - it is subjective and personal. You've highlighted two locomotives where the colours matter to you, and where you'd be bothered if they change - yet you argue in support of a non-prototypical approach for another locomotive, which many people feel very strongly about.

 

The bottom line is that it's the owners choice. It's a working steam engine which is the most important thing. Even with the best will in the world a locomotive it can be exactly as it was pre 1968. Even in a simple overhaul your taking away orgonal material. I find it hard as someone who has spent all of my working life dedicated to the survival of the working steam locomotives that people will not accept anything can be changed for the better or at least short term to add variety to our love of steam for the general good. Come on this thread is showing the insular and short sighted thinking that exists with in our field of interest.

 

The return to operational status is universally welcomed, it is only the putative livery which divides opinion. I have not seen any post that criticises the restoration per se.

 

And one thing that seams to escape most people is of that "200 years of history" a quarter of that has been the "preservation years" and that has history too. So I see nowt wrong in WC choosing their own path, nor indeed the KWVR painting the Ivatt tank Crimson and as for my years on a certain 2-6-4 tank in Cally blue the vast majority of the punters really liked it, as did the owner.

 

Neither do I, so long as it is a well executed strategic policy.

 

That hasn't really answered the question, was there a limit which has now been relaxed?