MK1's coaches vs other stock

I half agree with you. It's the Mark 1 sameyness of yer av'rage tourist railway that concerns me.

PH

 

"Concerns you"? Why is it of concern? And how would you suggest addressing this concern for railways like GWSR, WSR etc.? I can well understand enthusiasts not being that bothered about them, but as we've been told, they only make up a small proportion of passengers. What ought to be of concern is the cleanliness and number of carriages, not what carriages they are, the former is far more important than the latter to most normal people I'm sure you'd agree.

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That can only improve though as more chicken sheds get restored, meanwhile more Mark 1's approach the rust event horizon, followed swiftly by their Mark 2 brethren.

Sawdust.

 

Quite so. I get the feeling that at times Paul tends to see things through the eyes of the enthusiast he undoubtedly is but as many of us on here have said, the general public have different requirements.

 

Indeed. It's a fairly safe bet that PMV/GUV vehicles will be increasingly thinner on the ground than they are today.

Yer actual wooden bodied compo stock is undoubtedly great for ambience, and highly suitable for shorter runs, but I wonder where a balancing point will be struck between this lovely old kit and the experience of (for example) the FR/WHR indicating a customer preference for their newer stock. As I understand it, bug boxes to Blaenau and Compos to Caernarfon are nearly always the preserve of enthusiasts i.e. a small minority of requisite bums on seats.

 

I was merely agreeing with the comments of @Sawdust that if every train on every railway they saw last week...... they might not visit as often. Alas they tend to be fairly homogenous and as not every line runs through an Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty it is of some importance.

PH

 

Loading gauge problems make this generally impractical although I think the Nene Valley have a few.

PH

 

Who knows? I suspect that a lot of Mk. 1 vehicles are having their lavatory floors inspected at this present moment! Things are going to get expensive whatever happens.

PH

 

From where I am I don't see how continually repairing Mk1s replacing more and more bits of metal gradually is going to be more expensive than restoring wooden wrecks. It certainly won't be quicker and that is also an issue - if you've got lovely stock but it's in the workshop all the time that's not much use.

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Er. I did say "expensive whatever happens."

PH

 

It's really very simple:

• For steam locomotives, what matters is efficiency. Variety and interest count for little. Unnamed experts know this to be fact.
• For carriages, what matters is variety. If this costs more, it'll be worth it.

Some might think this is inconsistent, but they're wrong. Do try to keep up!

 

You've summed it up marvelously!

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Ok, so you think difference in cost and time restoring a Mk1 and an older wooden coach is marginal?

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The thing is with the use of Mark 1 coaches, for a lot of railways, nothing else was available at the time they started. Only a few railways got going in time to grab any pre nationalisation coaches, SVR, Bluebell, Keighley etc. Pre nationalisation coaches disappeared fairly quickly in the late 60s, less need for coaches then, due to service reductions caused by the Beeching cuts and the introduction of DMUs, so BR had a surplus. Logically, they got rid of their oldest ones first. Any which survived into the 70s were ones adapted to departmental use which would need a lot of work, whereas a Mark 1 was pretty much ready to go

A well restored and presented Mark 1, I think is a nice vehicle and they are sufficiently different from plasticky modern trains to be interesting to the general public. The early Mark 2s are also getting to this status too

 

Cartman's post (#134) put me in mind of photos of all that pre-grouping Isle of Wight stock being broken up at St.Helens and Newport in the 50s and 60s. The greatest pity, to my mind, was the loss of ex-LBSC 6986, which survived as DS70008, considered beyond repair when it succumbed as late as 1969. It makes you realise just how far restoration skills have developed in the interim.

 

Again, where did I say that? All I would say is that with the preponderance of Mk. 1 stuff the potential total cost of keeping it all operational is enormous. The end result would be a fleet of restored vehicles which would be, well, "samey".

PH

 

When you talk about the "enormous" cost of keeping Mk1s you imply other options would be cheaper?

Keeping a variety of carriages is going to be more expensive anyway, purely because you need a selection of different spares - a whole fleet of Mk1s only needs one set of spares, and we can swap bogies and other things round to our heart's content, with a variety things become less flexible and more expensive as a result.

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Actually, what seems to be intended as sarcasm is not so far from the real position. For "normals" looking for half a days entertainment, the carriage, more particularly its inside, is rather more important than the locomotive although they may well have a passing interest in the latter

PH