MK1's coaches vs other stock

Only to an extent. When we talk about efforts of restoration and all the rest of it I'm in total agreement with you (someone make a note of it!!) But I don't see why carriage variety is any more interesting to the general public than loco variety, other than perhaps, compartment/open first or second class stock, all of which can be achieved with Mk1s anyway...

In fact, I think you could probably put me inside any Mk1 on our railway and I'd recognise which one it was pretty quickly, I'm struggling to think of many the same, even TSOs and SKs of which we have multiple all have different upholstery, panelling etc.

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How true! Methinks there would be little public appetite for an authentic 70s 4EPB experience, especially a rush hour "smoker" on a cold, rainy day. Ditto, I suspect, an authentic 40s troop train!

 

Again you have missed out three important words. These are "total", "all" and "samey"

Tourist attractions are looking for an Unique Selling Point (USP) "Samey" is not what they are after.

PH

 

I would LOVE just one more trip from Manchester Victoria to Radcliffe Central in a Class 504, on any kind of day!

 

504s perhaps better ventilated than the door droplights of SR stock then? By the end, the EPBs ride quality had deteriorated from "indifferent" to frequently terrifying! The experience of an "up" North Kent line semi-fast, bucketing about while trying to make up time over the StJohn's flyover, loaded to the gunwhales, with a stranger's nether regions gyrating unsteadily in uncomfortable proximity isn't one I would care to repeat ever again, authenticity notwithstanding!

[Edit : I just looked up the 504s, and have come to the conclusion that either conditions in the north west were very different from SE London, or Mr Cartman is of a somewhat more sentimental dispostion than I!]

 

Within @flying scotsman123's constraints, they do not have to be that "samey". Mk1s are underrated; had the Bulleid TTOs (substitute any other mass produced carriage designs to suit) survived in similar number, I suspect we'd have been having similar conversations and wishing more Mk1s had survived.

The problem is that too many Mk1s represent the tail end of their type, with lots of formica and no sense of soul.

 

I'll happily agree with all of that, especially the last part!

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Seeing as threads were split off, I've copy pasted this quote to this thread.

In response, Mk1s: droplights, check. Varnished wooden interiors, check (at least the nice ones, see my and 35B's previous posts) Views of Cotswold villages in picture frames, check, well, here anyway, NYMR may have different villages in picture frames...

Staggeringly, you are not the only person to talk to normal people, and I have plenty of folk come up and ask me about the locos etc.

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No, a 504 was a BR type 2EPB with the raked back frontal design from the 304/5/8 AC units The main difference was Gresley bogies and the ride could be bouncy, particularly in the trailer, especially when they used to get up to about 60-65 mph on the downhill section between Whitefield and Radcliffe. The power cars were heavier and rode a little better

 

You will need to see the Bluebell's 1947 pattern Bulleid composite, when it returns to service. Then repent!

PH

 

If we're talking about bouncy, I will raise you a 304 at speed on the Liverpool - Crewe's. Not a time to try to read.

 

I'll raise you an early 70s down run on a 5BEL across Keymer Jnc. Seasoned passengers made sure they'd finished their coffee by Haywards Heath!

 

You have misquoted me again I fear. I said "grained" (aka "combed") which is not the same as varnished. I forgot to mention overhead racks with nets rather than slats. Oh and toasty warm interiors when the steam heat is on.

Glad you talk to "normals"!

PH

 

I have to, I'm a TTI! Mk1s, steam heat, check. And they can get pretty toasty warm, although that usually involves me wearily closing windows after everyone opens them then leaves.

So when it comes down to it, you seem to suggest that the public prefer coaches other than Mk1s due to a specific wood grain, and netting on the luggage racks? Because so far all the things you say are so good about other carriages Mk1s have as well, as long as they're restored well.

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No, it's because the "other " stuff has more "character" which is an impossible thing to define. Just the same way the 4Cor units on the Waterloo to Portsmouth run had it, despite the appalling ride, whilst their successors (basically Mk. 1s I think) did not. I am sure you do a lovely job on their restoration.

PH

 

As far as I know, the wood was varnished and any metal areas, such as the doors, were grained/combed

 

A lively ride to put it mildly.

 

Visited the Battlefield Line on Sunday. Industrial locos pulling Mk.1 stock on a line that lost its passenger services in 1931. The carriages were in fairly good nick and clean. The recently restored Mk.1 Griddle Car was generating quite a bit of interest and favourable comment from passengers. In spite of the wholly inauthentic loco and stock, everyone seemed to be enjoying themselves.

 

It really depends what you are starting with?
The biggest problem of timber bodied ex departmental carriages is the lack of interior and fittings, this is where complete mk 1s score in cost terms.

I said about 20 years ago at an NYMR board meeting that age would level the playing field, and everything I see convinces me that will still be the case. Oh yes I hear you say, but you can't mig weld wood, well no you can't, but you can do amazing stuff with epoxy resin based timber adhesive. When in time mk 1s have extensive corrosion along the cant rails and their solebars are deemed to be too thin they won't be quick or easy to repair then.

Sawdust.