Heritage Line Loco Power Requirements

Indeed, IIRC the SVR [as SVR(H)] only own 4930, 45110 and 600. Of course, Hagley Hall has a support group which helps with the overhaul.

 

I wouldn't but Joe Public probably would. In any case my suggestion was that funds could then be used to pay for capital items so it could mean there was more to see than now for the visitor. (Didcot was one example, there is no point pontifcating on specific posssible projects)

 

Aren't your "thoughts" also unsupported by facts? Thanks for the spelling lesson.

 

How much more info do you want? The axle boxes were overhauled at the same time as the rest of the loco. They may have covered slightly higher mileage owing to the frames being towed around the works before the rest of the motion was fitted but the significance of this us so minimal as not to make it worthy of mention.
Is that better?

 

This thread, ostensibly about the excellent 82045 project has drifted away rather too much (Yes I know I have been guilty of this sort of thing myself from time to time).

Can't go along with the indignation at Reading General's comments though.

PH

 

.I do seem to have touched anerve or two. My intention was to ponder on the future motive power requirements and possible series new builds

 

Rubbish! For a start, there is not enough work for all these steam locos to be in steam at once. Even if there was the money other resources such as labour and workshop capacity are only limited, and most workshops are pretty busy as it is.

And charities selling off historic assets to private owners to raise money? *Really*? You'd be happy for that to happen, and accept any consequences of that, ie those locos sold never seeing the light of day again, or even scrapped to raise money by the private owner who bought it with good intentions? It's madness, the engine house at Highley, Didcot and the locos on display at bluebell (and also Foxfield springs to mind) is an ideal solution. Engines not currently required and/or awaiting funds are still part of the overall attraction visitors, and are undercover so when their time comes their overhaul is much cheaper.

Back to your original assertion that *more* locos are out of service now than before, the mere existence of these facilities doesn't prove that. Before then there were just more engines out of use sat outside rusting rather than inside and not.

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and that doesn't bother you? If selling them off grinds your valve gear, how about leasing them then? At least they'd bring in some cash that way (and it doesn't need to be all of them of course).

 

No, not in the slightest, because I know it would be pointless, there simply isn't enough work for all those locos to be in steam at once. Leasing a loco out is all well and good but the host railway still has to have the capacity to restore it, some labour, and the money. And if it's got those things then why would it choose to expend them on a loco they know they only get to keep for X amount of years before being whisked off when they could spend it on an out of ticket loco on their own line? Because let's be honest, there may be a shortage of serviceable locos, but I can't think of many lines who's restoration volunteers are sat twiddling their thumbs with nothing to do on their own lines in terms of locos, assuming the money is there of course.

All of that is irrelevant to the point you initially made, that there are less steam locos in service now than at some point in the past. Locos sat in sheds not doing anything is not evidence for this unless you can categorically say there were less sat around and more in use at a point in the past than there are now.

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OK. From someone who is involved in newbuilds and really loves the idea of more. Series builds will never happen. Unless there is a lottery win. It just won't. The cost will never be cheaper, as long as the overhaul is done correctly and not stripped down then put together and stripped down again spending thousands in labour costs, so this argument never works. Original locos already have parts that will be reusable.

The ability to raise money has so far only been possible in a few groups. Unfortunately half of the newbuild locos proposed will never steam, they don't raise the money and that is a fact supported by their own accounts.

I personally do think you have a point about some locos possibly being loaned out, to this I'm hoping one will be sorted out soon that I know of. And I'm sure it could be done elsewhere. There are railways that would love a few steam locos to be based there. I'm sure the Ecclesbourne, mid Norfolk, Wensleydale, weardale, okehampton, and other smaller lines that are expanding over time such as midsomer Norton, helston, oswestry, Telford, Lincolnshire Wolds etc, would like some. The museum's at SVR etc could then speak with people at the NRM to house items for display purposes, you might even get one gifted for free......

 

You have touched off a few fireworks indeed! This suggests there are some guilty consciences around.

One thing has to be said. It is difficult, probably indeed impossible, for a charity to dispose of its assets for a profit. There is nothing though to stop one charity from donating items to another charity if it is felt that this would assist in furthering the charitable aims of the donor organisation. There is at least one example of this having been done successfully. If charitable status is to be more than a tax avoidance device it is difficult to see the objection to such a course.

Perhaps the 82045 thread could be given a break by the transfer of posts not directly relevant to it to a more appropriate one; "linear scrapyard" possibly?

PH

 

I'm not saying that the odd loan isn't possible, it's definitely desirable and as we've seen, has been fantastic. But the idea that Didcot, the engine house at Highley or Bluebell could do that with all, or atv least a large chunk of their collections, is ludicrous. The odd one or two yes, but then none of the collections are static anyway, the odd one or two are often being taken out and restored replaced by another.

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You have just proved my point.

PH

 

I have commented on this before, but perhaps this is a good time to repeat the theory. Most ex BR locos, whether they were preserved via Barry or direct from service, were withdrawn with a considerable amount of life left in them, in particular in fireboxes. Why would any group with its head in the right place lend out as yet unrestored examples to another group for them to benefit from this life and eventually return a loco with that life depleted? Far better to keep that life as a strategic reserve, given the ever escalating cost of firebox repairs.

It's all a bit of a myth anyway. Very few lines have large queues of locos awaiting overhaul, other than perhaps the Bluebell and SVR, and in these cases they are there because that's where the owners want them to be!

 

You don't have to have a guilty conscience to disagree with you Paul - I certainly don't feel very guilty and I frequently disagree with you!

Anyway I'd have thought restoring more locos than is necessary is rather WIBN isn't it? Leaving aside loans which I feel is a separate matter, and as IoWsR and ESR showed can be very successful.

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Sounds like you have met the 'wrong' type of accountant - once you sell an asset, it has gone and at best you will pay more (probably a lot more) to get it back.

Use it, and/or other assets as security to borrow to fund an overhaul, supported by making the business case based on what the loco will 'earn'/save when running, to me makes rather more sense.

Partly tongue in cheek, I might say that what accountants tend to find doesn't work in practice is getting realistic estimates of cost and timescales (or indeed any estimates) from engineers - 'It will be ready when its ready and cost what it costs' doesn't make for a great business case for anything!

I can't agree about the value of an out of service loco - history suggests that the sort of sums that would be difficult to justify on a 'business case' approach have been offered and in some cases paid for locos requiring full overhauls (or close to them), making some working locos that have changed hands look like absolute bargains!

Steven

 

Ideally. it would have to be a transfer rather than merely a loan. There is an old cliche to the effect "I'm not its owner merely the custodian for my lifetime". If this is to be more than mere words then this means donation to some organisation who will finish the job. It is something that goes beyond tribal loyalties.

Of course this cannot not the universal answer but in fact I travelled today behind a machine which was brought back to use by such an arrangement. It is one of three that have enjoyed the benefit of this.

PH