Heritage Line Loco Power Requirements

A couple of points:

- Large/heavy trains ran across the line 'back in the day' quite a lot - the train that caused the closure of the line, after the slip at Chicken curve (IIRC the location) was a coal train (IIRC). So use of such gear on the GWSR is not ahistorical.

- The GWSR has been paying a lot of attention to their civils in recent years; bridgework (and not just the ones on the Broadway extension) have seen a lot of work (see here for coverage of some of it), and the drainage system (poor drainage being behind one of the reasons for the big recent Chicken Curve slip) is now deemed so important that it has its own department, which been putting a lot of time and energy (and money, too) into not just refurbishing the existing drainage, but is now improving it well beyond what BR/etc left.

Yes, it's true that the original civil engineering work was not always of the highest quality (the Chicken Curve slip was caused, in good part, because the embankment was just piled on the exising surface - standard practise in the day, of course) - although some of it's quite good - the brickwork on the old circular culverts is fantastic.

A whole different picture from even 5 years ago - the two slips really woke them up, and caused a major refocus of priorities.

(PS: Sorry this is in sort of the wrong thread, but since the original comment was here, I wanted to reply here.)

Noel

 

The economics of operating the new builds and securing enough money to cover future overhauls and also the effect on original locos which is of some importance..

 

See this thread and marvel at the transformation......
https://www.flickr.com/photos/gwr-lineside-drainage-management/

 

For goodness sake, please stop winding him up!
Now, back to 82045. I understand that the side tanks are under construction at another location. Given the usual lead in times for locomotive work, when might these be arriving at the SVR to be fitted to the loco?

 

Discuss - are all enthusiast run trains toy trains.

Consider the following - a well known passenger joins the train at a request stop near a caravanpark. Later in the day said pasenger requests the stop and alights having done his shopping. Is that a toy train? There are other examples

 

Tornado has had two overhauls in her ten year run: first one for modifications to be made to the steel firebox and its stays, the second was a mid-ticket overhaul to refresh the locomotive for operation.

There has not been a particular cash flow issue at the trust as far as I'm aware and the funds are such that the A1's tender looks to be bought ahead of schedule too.

If you have a good group with good operating policies, across all departments including finance, this should not be an issue.

For which there is at this stage absolutely no proof in any way shape or form that building new locomotives in any way hampers the ability for a group, railway or individual to build funds for overhauling original locomotives.

 

To be fair maybe some of the original locos you mention need to look at themselves and ask the question "how can we do better, the money is out there but for some reason no-one will give it to us" or maybe it's a case of they are not shouting loud enough.

82045 does a fantastic web update every month shouting about their achievements and future plans. There are many many web pages that never get updated at all. Most of the newbuild groups are out and about pushing to raise funds. Again there are loco groups out there that don't put in any effort to do this. Newbuild groups pay money out for leaflet drops in magazines, adverts etc. Where are the original groups doing the same to raise funds? Don't get me wrong, there are groups who manage to keep their locos in steam, and I'm going to say the stanier mogul and erlestoke manor always seem to be fundraising when I go to the SVR and guess what. They stay at the top of the queue for overhaul paying towards the cost (depending on the contract with SVR). But where are the others? Don't blame new builds for putting in effort. I can't talk for other newbuilds but the LMS Patriot project is looking at loads of ideas for future funding and keeping things going. But this is again something most newbuilds understand. Unlike some original loco groups that dont!

 

Without serviceable infrastructure, no railway - impossible to 'hire in'!

Without carriages, nowhere for fare paying passengers to travel in - so no railway - expensive and not at all easy to hire in.

Without locomotives, nothing to pull the carriages - not cheap or easy to hire in but happens much more frequently than carriages.

So, tend to agree with @paulhitch about importance of infrastructure spend - I would get very worried if I heard anyone say 'we are spending too much on infrastructure', even if us 'bean-counters' may have 'full and frank' discussions with Civil Engineers from time to time! (I nearly was the latter rather than the former!)

Steven

 

i don't mean that, what I mean is each replica is doing revenue earning work that otherwise would have been done by an original loco. Ultimately each replica could be consigning another original to a museum plinthe.

 

Paul - stop trying to virtue signal your way out of the hole you have found yourself in.

You know what - I don't volunteer on a heritage railway. I have a full time job, significant other volunteering responsibilities in other areas and more demands on my time than I know what to do with. I do contribute financially where I can in various different ways. What I do is nothing to do with the point I was making.

 

Gradients are probably the most important thing to consider. Unless your super loco has some sort of regenerative system putting energy back into your boiler, any energy used in going uphil is not recovered going downhill.
Now, if your loco can put energy back into the boiler going downhill, that may be of interest to more than a few.

 

Are the gradients on SVR so severe that brakes are applied heavily going downhill?
Rolling resistance of old railway stock plus locomotive correspond to a .5% gradient.
If my faboluos steam-battery train meets a .5% hill I just use double the power going uphil and nothing going down.
Double power may even mean less steam if locomotive works more effective doing double work half the time.
When the german autobahns were planned in the thirties it was calculated that if they were built like roller coasters up and down the fuel consumption would have been less.

 

You are the one in a hole. Plenty of people combine a full time job with volunteering.

For my part I have volunteered ever since I left school which is one hell of a long time ago. I actually know what it is like to shovel ballast, carry sleepers, clean fires,oil round, organise crew rosters write articles for magazines and many of the other myriad tasks needed. Nothing particularly special in this and only mentioned because it appears to be very different from you. Fewer snide remarks please.

PH

 

Fireless locos were usually used in locations where there were large steam plants eg paper mills etc

What however would be the impact of a single boiler having to dump most of its contents into a fireless loco at one go before then having to come back to the boil over an hour or less......................

I suspect that even with my very basic knowledge of boiler operation my hair is starting to stand on end

 

And plenty of people find they cannot, even if they initially sign up to do so. Just because someone doesn't volunteer doesn't mean they can't appreciate the advantages and disadvantages of larger engines, or anything else. If we go down the route of only volunteers are allowed to disagree with eachother then the forum would be worse off. And yet even then the vast majority of volunteers still manage to disagree with you anyway!

 

Paul, you've got to stop and think how you're coming across here. I'm not going to give details of my life here because I don't believe in showing off.

Suffice to say I have used this site to learn more about heritage railways and steam because I have no background in the subject and was new to it just about 7 years ago. There are some contributors I read religiously because they have a lot of wisdom to add to raise my level of knowledge. Others here are polemicists who appear to see this site as being a way of 'proving' how their view of the world is correct. I read their posts with amusement but they tend to lack any sense of balance.

I'm sorry - I hadn't realised that I was banned from saying anything unless I conform to your list of acceptable characteristics.

 

I used to enjoy reading this thread.

Sawdust.

 

And I snapped at you because you came over as a dilettante making snide remarks. Time for a truce I think.

I still think you need to get involved somewhere before you can hope to know what it is all about. Some people thinking of volunteering have the strangest ideas of what is involved, as if a preserved railway was akin to a charity shop with people "popping in" for an hour or two after they had walked the dog! Financial matters are beyond the ken of a lot of railway enthusiasts. I am no expert but @Bean-counter (see post 1231) is and needs to be listened to.

There are two two basic problems with railway preservationists. Firstly a tendency not to finish one project fully before starting another. Obviously much worse with some people and groups than others but can be chronic. Secondly, as hinted above, a tendency to spend more money than they need to and which they don't have. They are enthusiasts and are not inclined to welcome messages of the "why is this necessary" kind from people like me even though IMHO they should. Post 1231 is a considerable reassurance to me that I am not quite a solitary creature baying at the Moon!

I hope this helps/

PH

 

But post 1231 is from a non volunteer so must be discounted. That being the case you would appear to be a solitary creature baying at the moon.

Apologies to beancounter as unlike some I apreciate the suport from non volunteers to our hoby. Just quoting PH's mantra

 

@Bean-counter has immense experience of preserved railway finance and is also a professional accountant as you well know.