West Somerset Railway General Discussion

There maybe issues with 4561 - but they must by now be pretty well known as the loco is dismantled. If they are due to poor contract work surely that should be being addressed? - or is this a hangover from the times of the "toxic six"?
Any issues with 7821 can only be known from records, experience with it in previous service and the cursory examination of it in complete state. Issues which might arise on dismantling cannot be known until that takes place.
So the comparison is between one of some cost certainty and one where cost to completion will be more difficult to tie down as well as being considerably higher (more than double) to start with.

 

Strange as 5542 seemed useful on up to load 7 at times and recent visits have commonly found that number in use. Though the increased water capacity of a 4575 class over a 4500 is significant unless h2o became available at WLTN.....

 

So you are suggesting that cancelling a train is preferable to removing a carriage or two so that it can still run?

Tom

 

No.

I am suggesting that having a standby loco capable of hauling the expected train is preferable to a standby that cannot.

Robin

 

Well flogging engines for years on end to their limit has a predictable result.

Even 4160 was "loose" at the end of its hire period on the WSR


Will the WSRA membership be happy that a newly and expensively in cash, management, fund raising and volunteer time re-built loco if 4561 is mostly being pushed to the limit on the WSR??


As has been said, the WSR loco restoration fund is likely to be perpetual which maybe just as well.

Mike has commented on the WSRA trustees being charged with getting best value for work done, would they also need to ensure that use of WSRA is such that rate of wear is optimized in a similar vein??

Thus the benefit of larger locomotives on the WSR is that less flogging should take place but with the operational flexibility to deal with any normal peak loading bit of a win win all ways round.

I am not advocating the sale of 4561 just it's packing away until the underling issue is deal with, it can then be picked up again and brought to completion.

Jeff

 

A 3 car dmu is currently standing in Bishops Lydeard Station. Several diesel hauled services have run in this slot in the last few months and some of these were trains of 4 coaches.

Why can't 4561 run in that turn with, say, a 4 coach "local"? The variety would be welcome and more in keeping with a branch line.

WRT 4561, and to quote Bamber Gascoigne, "I've started so I'll finish".

Edit. I can only count 6 coaches on the train that has just arrived from Minehead.

 

Perhaps Robin, in her role as a WSR signalman, would care to tell us what the loadings are on seven-coach trains this peak August season. Can the railway always assume it will fill seven-coach trains in the future at this time of year. Has the WSR reached peak loadings?

 

Good points, although filling a diesel turn with steam doesn't do anything to help steam availability, and it's quite possibly that as soon as you stick a steam engine on the front suddenly 3 or 4 coaches isn't enough.

Nonetheless it still seems sensible to finish 4561 first given how much work has been put into it already, as surely if you started the manor now, it wouldn't be ready as soon as finishing off 4561? I appreciate they're not equal locos but having some early success is important, and a loco in service is still a loco in service, and it'll be more useful than 6412 at any rate.

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Actually it was Magnus Magnusson but I agree.

PH

 

Surely today a steam loco is not practical as a standby. However nice it might be a diesel is more appropriate.

 

I'm pretty much in agreement with you over this. It is thought by many people that societies hiring out their locos are actually subsidising the operating railway because they don't charge a realistic amount. if you look at a loco costing (say) £600K to overhaul and then a further (say) £200K to keep it in traffic over 70,000 miles of running, you are looking at a break even cost of £11.50/mile. How many loco owners charge that amount? I don't know the answer to that but I bet there are locos out there that can be hired for less than that. Before anyone says locos don't cost that to overhaul and maintain, if you start adding in volunteer time at (say) £50/day (cheap labour) the costs soon rack up.
The one drawback to hiring in locos is that you are not totally in control of things and become reliant on the hire organisation maintaining their loco in an operable condition. The nature of our movement is that it often relies on volunteer time, even for hire locos and any breakdowns or problems may not be attended to with the necessary urgency and it is unlikely that there will have any back up loco to substitute. Probably the best solution, as 1472 says, is for the railway to have some of its own locos and hire some in. However, I would use the hire locos and keep the railways own fleet as the secondary source of motive power. That way, you remain in control, have a relatively simple cost base and don't wear out your own locos so keeping your own overhauls at manageable costs.
As to whether overhauls should be done in-house or contracted out, that is a totally different topic for discussion and I doubt that one size will fit all railways.

 

2 sorts of standby, a last minute one definitely diesel of course, but if a loco fails and is out of service for a week say, then a steam standby is useful. Virtually all railways will have steam locos on standby for the second occasion, and occasionally the first if one happens to be in steam.

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Fair comment. My idea of standby is available for almost immediate use.

 

On the GWSR at least, the standby loco just means that it must be complete and ready to go, ie not out for repairs or washout. So if a steam loco fails in the morning then use a diesel, but if it's still broken the next day then that's where a standby steam loco is useful.

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Which actually rules out quite a few types of diesel loco as well

It is perhaps telling that even the most commercial heritage railway in the country (P&DR) now operates using a blend of owned and hired locos as opposed to the previous long term situation of using solely in house ones. That may be through necessity or design but in recent years several notable periods of hire have occurred including 4936, 7820, 5542, 7752 and perhaps others.

 

Oh yes. Sorry.

 

Absolutely so. One thing which affects all mechanical engineering departments is that they get called away to do repairs etc. not only to motive power and carriages but to other machinery as well. Thus overhauls tend to get delayed. On the other hand, outside work has to be paid for in addition.

PH

 

I do believe that the WSR has diesels that might be usable in extremis...

 

Sorry if this has already been asked, but does anyone know what loco will be joining FS during the week?

 

To me it will be better to get 4561 running and the cost saved against getting 7821 running spent on getting the vintage (pre 1948) coaches restored back to use, as 7 of these I think will be a slighter lighter load to haul than 6 MK1 coaches. This will be a good marketing tool as well.