Current and Proposed New-Builds

Don't think theres any danger of the A4 style front happening.
Despite appearances this P2 has subtle differences to 2001; both draughting and aerodynamics have come on a bit since the 1930's and so there are a couple of cards up sleeves...

 

The A4 front end will NOT happen - and the name when used in Scotland will be Duke of Rothesay. I would suggest you go to the A1SLT website and have a good read sbout the P2 and the plans behind it.

 

Bear in mind rather like 1470 [4470] Great Northern and 1471 [4471] Sir Frederick Banbury, the pair of V4s were something of a prototype pairing. One had themic syphons like the Southern Pacifics the other I believe didn't. The "production" batch of 10 A1s started with 1472 [4472] to 1481 [4481] came into service in early 1923 onwards. Gresley/LNER had ordered the material needed to do a batch of 10 V4s pending the results from the first pair.

As we all know by the time those two V4s came into service the Second World War had started and at the time the UK stood alone May-June 1940 until June 1941 when Hitler invaded the Soviet Union/Russia and Japan attacked the U.S. in December. Gresley dying in April with Thompson taking over and cancelling the "production" batch of V4s. Replacing them with the first 10 B1s as they already had the materials in stock for the cancelled V4s.

 

Again, I would suggest reading about the P2 on the A1SLT website. A lot of the issues surrounding the originals are addressed there.

 

The Doncaster-based group's intention (unlikely ever to be achieved I guess) is to build a P2 with the "A4 styled" front end. I have to say that I much prefer the look of the P2 in this guise. It just looks far more elegant. However, since I'm not backing either project financially it is of little matter other than a personal whim. If I had the finances to order a new-build of LNER design however, I know I'd go straight to the A1SLT!

 

P2 Reasoning;
Think of another Class 8p Steam loco that no longer exists ( LNER P2, Thompson Pacifics, W1)
pick the one with that 'Really ? Wow... here's a tenner' factor.
done
Personally im not a Fan of the 'Bugatti nose' on the P2. without the curved running plate it looks like what it is - an afterthought, looked better on the B17.
Much as I hope the poppet valve gear works out the 1st Walschaerts gear loco (2002 Earl Marischal) was better looking.

 

There was a plan to call it Duke of Rothesay when it runs in Scotland

 

I have no real objections to the name, Rothesay would be a nice touch from time to time, but I do hope the P2 has a "war phase" and carries "Wolf of Badenoch" in matte black livery, and additionally makes some kind of evening winter run north of the border...landing up in a cold and unforgiving Waverly platform 11 or 19...with some mood lighting... I really am getting off topic!

I think its clear why the P2 was picked as discussed above.

Rarity, serious wow factor, some commonality with Tornado, but also, the hauling ability is going to come in pretty useful from both a timings and revenue perspective.

I speculate, but keeping up a good clip with 14/15 bogies on tow shouldn't be much of an ask, even on tough gradients.

The Patriot and 82045 are coming along nicely, I regularly read the updates. Its going to be something to have what, 4? new builds soon...

 

I'm really not entirely sure why it doesn't just carry the Duke of Rothesay name full time- a nod to the P2's original purpose.

Calling it Prince of Wales seems a bit daft to me, given that its apeing LNE heritage.

Chris

 

In the months before the name was settled on, I was looking up suitable Scots Gaelic names. "Triath nan Eilean" (Lord of the Isles) quite appealed. I'd imagine it would pretty soon have become informally known as 'Eileen'.

 

Hello vt

Is the translation not 'Righ nan Eilian' ?

Bob.

 

I saw that translation alongside the one I found. As far as I can tell, both seem to be valid. Could be a dialect thing, or a usage thing, or just a straightforward cock-up from a primary English source! I'm not sufficiently well up on Gaelic to guess which.

The loco would still have been known as 'Eileen' in either case!

 

I'm not well up on Gaelic either, but that's what's painted on the side of Calmac's 'Lord of the Isles'.

Bob.

 

Why they didn't pick 'Lord of the Isles' is utterly beyond me; that's also one of his titles, so the link to him would be there; and you can't get much more Scottish than that one!

Noel

PS: Ooops. That's what I get for not reading forward in the thread before I post.

 

I understand the reasoning (that's the title he uses North of the border), but.... (and I hope I'm not offending any fans of Rothesay in saying this, if so, apologies...) 'Duke of Rothesay' just doesn't have the, ah, poetry of 'Lord of the Isles' [well, to me :-].

Noel

 

Alas, now that I think about it, there's already a locomotive named 'Lord of the Isles'; not sure if the Gaelic translation would be 'different enough' to make it usable.

Noel

 

Calling the new P2 Prince of Wales opens lots of doors that would otherwise be closed to the group.

Also the fact none of them ever carried BR livery is seen as a plus by the most hardcore LNER fans on the planet.

Sawdust.

 

Seems to me that there is quite an emphasis on the LNER in the new build area. I suppose due to the fact that no LNER locos, apart from 61264, got to Barry means that they are less well represented in preservation. The GWR also features, due to the availability of existing parts from unrestored Barry locos, leading to 2999, 6880, 4709 etc.

The LMS only has two, the Patriot and LNWR George, with the Southern just Beachy Head, the remainder are 82045, 72010 and a 77000 class 3 2-6-0.

Lets have a Fowler class 3 tank, a Johnson/Deeley 3F, a Claughton and an Austin 7! (or maybe not)

 

That name was added in preservation and I don't think it is carried on a permanent basis.

Keith