West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Mark 1's were originally built with flush windows.

This proved to be a poor design.

Many were later retro-fitted with frames and from a time later in the run, new ones were built with frames.

Robin

 

I wonder if this is the key (see bold highlight)?
If as a shareholder I invest in a plc I expect a return. As an employee of a plc I expect to get paid. I'd expect neither of those things from a not for profit. Hence my comment about being a viable business. The treatment of the entity by external bodies will depend on the form of the entity as will access to external funding sources.
Please note I am not saying anything has to change but lets just keep in mind the realities of what we ask volunteer office holders to achieve on our behalf and the limitations within which they are required to work. Hence the core of my point, It's we, the enthusiasts, more than ever that need to mobilise to help with the required fundraising and volunteering. I know on this site I'm preaching to the choir to a large extent so I'll say no more on the subject.

 

Do the shareholders in most of the PLCs operating heritage railways (the WSR or the SVR for example - I am excluding the Paignton line) really expect a return, either as a dividend or as a capital gain? I suspect not.

Do the volunteers who constitute the majority of employees of such PLCs expect to be paid? I suspect not.

 

I suspect you rather missed the next sentence...

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Not at all. My intent was to draw attention to the contradiction.

 

I don't see a contradiction - all those PLC's are not for profit.

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Exactly - the post I was quoting states that PLC shareholders expect to receive a return on their investment, which is presumably not the case for all PLCs.

 

PLC shareholders expect a return *except* shareholders in not for profit PLC's is surely both the original point and yours?

I feel like between us we've made hard work of this!

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I like clarity. It's always important to come to a clear understanding, after all.

However I seem to recall it wasn't all that long ago that a certain Minehead Bedroom Contingent were behaving as if the WSR PLC genuinely were a rapaciously commercial crew of asset-strippers from whom the WSR needed to be saved. To some extent, I assume, they were falling prey to the same misunderstanding.

 

Whilst the ravings of a minehead bedroom can be dismissed, that view wasn't confined to there and I have wondered on that before. I wonder whether closer proximity to the P&D makes a difference? It's certainly not an attitude I've come across in our Railway anyway.

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Bear in mind, also, that the reason the SVR includes a PLC in its structure is possibly down to a rather more plausible plot by a somewhat nasty local bigwig to sell off Bridgnorth station site for redevelopment (the ostensible reason being to set up a different organisation from the operating company to buy the Alveley Sidings-Foley Park stretch of freehold). The scheme came to nothing when the volunteers threatened a strike; said bigwig resigned but in any case died shortly afterwards.

 

I have seen several of these oblique allusions on this thread. Who are you talking about? I like clarity too.

 

It is very important to have a social element within volunteer groups. QB staff recently visited the South Devon and we will certainly have a Christmas meal/social this year, something that hasn't happened for far too long. I intend to revive our old tradition of paying an annual 'fact finding' visit to sample another heritage railway's dining service before long. Probably start with the Wessex Belle if all goes to plan.

We had a lovely day at the SDR; enjoyed PFP haulage (and '09' haulage!) having leapfrogged Royal Scot working The Royal Duchy on the journey down. We had originally hoped to do that railtour but it was fully booked.

Barrie

 

I'm an enormous fan of visiting other railways to see how they do things, we can learn so much from eachother but often don't!

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The reason for including a PLC in a structure is it opens up another source of funding, i.e. by way of subscription for shares by way of general invitation. Private companies, or companies which are not public companies, are limited in their ability to cast the net widely for new shareholders - see Part 20 of the Companies Act 2006.

Perhaps the GWSR could put together a powerpoint presentation to explain to other railways (and the rest of us) how they manage to have a turnover of £1.6m with a total of five employees, two of whom are part time?

 

Interesting, would you mind quoting a source regarding the WSR not wanting 28XX class locos?

Very kind of Rob to hold us in high enough regard to be worthy of taking on 7821, thank you! However, she is a big project in need of a very significant sum of money which is well beyond us at present!

 

Dunno, just sorta happens...

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For those 'in the know', there should be an opportunity for some unadvertised Hymek haulage on Sunday, subject to D7017's new paint being dry I guess!

Sunday's QB will have two TSOs in the consist, as we will be running in the path of the 14.20 Doniford to Minehead (a. 15.04) DMU and 17.20 Minehead to Bishops Lydeard (a. 18.36) DMU services. We will operate as an all stations stopper DMU substitution service, open to ordinary ticket holders.

We depart BL at 13.00 to pick up the above path at Doniford. Our rostered guard is a diesel enthusiast and I suspect, if politely requested, ordinary ticket holders/pass holders might be welcome to travel from BL to DD, but that is not my decision.

Please bear in mind there is no buffet car on these services, although we will endeavour to provide hot and cold drinks from the QB bar car once all dining passengers have been served, probably from Doniford.

Barrie

 

I think we understand what you are saying, but not-for-profits, even charitable ones, can have paid employees. The biggest heritage railway company of all, Network Rail, is a not for profit company (and limited by guarantee), but I imagine their employees like to be paid! I think the distinction you are trying to draw is whether anyone benefits either from dividends or an appreciation in a value of their shareholding arising from volunteers' efforts.