West Somerset Railway General Discussion

You wouldn't make very much steam with a bunker that size filled with wood. I'd say its coal won by hand.

The "then" photo of Watchet is superb in the detail it shows. The site of the loco shed would make a very good Time Team subject.

 

Yes, it would have been nice to know when the two specials were passing the intermediate stations. Especially when you consider how much time and effort has been put into organising the event, encouraging people to come and arranging for extra parking facilities at various stations.

 

An excellent picture of old Watchet. So much has changed! There's now so much greenery you almost wouldn't know there was a railway there.

 

Late summer weekend I'm making reference too, do I mean Scotsman week?

 

Just watched 1661 arrive at CH with the camera pointing towards BL BUT as the train went past, the camera flipped to the normal view. Who is doing this and how?

 

Hi Colin - the webcams are technically managed by railcam.uk (inc remote control) If you're watching via wsr.org.uk there's a comment link at the foot of the page. (otherwise email contact@railcam.uk )

Steve

 

Hi, Steve. Thanks. I tried registering with Railcam but failed twice and gave up.

 

I am not entirely sure what point you are making Tom, but if you are asserting that if you gift aid fares then the fares become subject to VAT, then that is not correct, at least not on the Talyllyn. I assume the other railways which do it follow their model which has been in operation for several years and seems to have been signed off by the Revenue.

 

I understand that they do not "gift aid fares" as such. Rather, they charge people eligible and willing for gift aid a higher amount. The difference is classed as a donation, and donations, unlike fares, can have gift aid claimed against.

 

Not correct. The donation element is less than the value of the cafe voucher issued.

 

I'm not an accountant either but, having previously gone into this subject, my understanding is the same as Tom's. The Talyllyn have a two fare structure, one of which includes a donation to make it eligible for Gift Aid. However, AIUI, this facility is only available on admissions and not on train fares. This would make it vat-able, surely? It is further complicated by part of the payment being refundable by way of a voucher redeemable in the shop/buffet.

 

Your understanding is not correct. There is no concept of an "admission".

 

Well, in all the HMRC and Museums documentation that I have read relative to Gift Aid, the term 'admission' is frequently used. Nowhere have I found a reference to travel/train fares being eligible.
With regard to the voucher provided by the TR on the Gift Aided payment, this amounts to £2.85. The Gift Aided fare is £19 as distinct from a standard fare of £17.25. This also appears at odds with what is allowed. To quote Visit England:
"if an admission charge to view a property is £20 and a visitor makes a donation of £22, the charity can give benefits up to a value of £0.50 (25% of the £2 donation). If a toy worth £2.50 is given as a thank you, then Gift Aid cannot be claimed on the donation, as the benefit limit is exceeded. If the charity offers a discount voucher for £0.50 off an ice cream or a badge worth £0.50 or less, then the donation will qualify for Gift Aid."
It all seems a bit dubious to this non-accountant (but one who has previously taken professional advice on the matter.)

 

However dubious it may seem to you, the TR manages to reclaim some thousands of pounds via Gift Aid. When the Annual Report lands in the next few days, I'll add the exact number.

 

The Visit England example is wrong. The reason for the 10% additional charge is that Gift Aid is only available on 'donations made in lieu admission charges' when:

1. Payment of the ordinary admission price allows free entry for year, OR
2. The person making the payment pays 10% more than the ordinary price.

Hence, paying 10% more is to qualify under the second of these and for admissions, the whole 'donation' is then subject to Gift Aid.

This is the Revenue guidance: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/gift-ai...d-cascs-can-claim-on#viewing-charity-property

I have never been convinced that train fares can be treated as 'admission' in this way - the donor being allowed a train ride must be seen as a 'thank you' which then doesn't count as a 'benefit' because it is a right to view the Charity's work.

The whole 'donation in lieu of admission fees' works on the same principle - that a donation is made and then access to view the work of the charity is provided but not treated as a 'benefit' (unlike the toy in the Visit England example).

If this is interpreted as being an 'admission ticket' instead of public transport (for VAT purposes), then the service provided is VATable and I believe one Railway had/may be still be having this battle, having become dependent on Gift Aid to balance their books. If the governing body of the organisation is all volunteers (and for a Charity this is highly likely), then the admission is exempt from VAT - so, no VAT payable but no related Input VAT is recoverable. This would be pretty expensive for a preserved railway, as most of their VAT would then no be able to be claimed back.

Steven

 

Yes, bits of Leylandii

 

I had read the document you quoted before posting. I can't comment on the rights or wrongs of the Visit England example but we do seem to agree on the question of Gift Aid on train tickets. The Nene Valley have had to repay substantial amounts of Gift Aid but I'm not sure of the detail. The Midland Railway Trust also fell foul of vat regulations over admissions/train tickets. You enter a minefield when you endeavour to bend the rules.
Re the NVR; I have just looked at their website and they appear to be claiming Gift Aid on train fares! http://www.nvr.org.uk/fares

 

With respect that does not show that they are acting according to the VAT rules. I remain sceptical of the validity of what they do.

 

West Somerset Railway - Then and Now #53

Alpha and Omega

Watchet : (1) 2nd January 1971 / (2) 2nd September 2017/ and (3) 31st March 1862

We will return to broad gauge Watchet tomorrow but while there yesterday snapping a few more 'nows' I was struck by the further juxtaposition of the opening and closing days.

Watchet at closure did not achieve that apparent dereliction and neglect of some of the more rural WSR stations (as we shall see). Perhaps this was because of its more urban setting, or because the footfall here always was decent, a factor that carries on in the present day.

I have a view that we preservationists have been 'lucky' that the line shut when it did rather than 5 years later, by which time the structures like Watchet pagoda would have been much less likely to have survived.

Robin

1971


2017


1862

 

Is there a blue plaque at Watchet to commemorate Abe Lincoln's visit?!!