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Atlantic Coast Express UKRT/MNLPS 23/09/17

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by Where's Mazeppa?, Sep 14, 2017.

  1. sycamore

    sycamore Member

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    Haha, wondered when the 'D' word would crop up! ;) :D
     
  2. AlexGWR1994

    AlexGWR1994 Member

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    My footage of Clan Line in superb form at Grateley, Tisbury and Honiton Bank. Her performance would have made David Shepherd proud. RIP David Shepherd CBE.
     
  3. steamvideosnet

    steamvideosnet Well-Known Member

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    Two stills from today, captured at Grateley and Sampford Peverell. Full credit to the MNLPS (and the DB crew), Clan Line's performances seem to get better and better as each trip goes on.

    35028 ACE.001.jpg 35028 ACE.002.jpg

    James
     
  4. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    A few reflections on the ACE that was about as true to its name as you could hope for.

    Basingstoke to Salisbury in 35 min 27 sec. That's inside even time and unheard of simply because service trains in steam days always called at Andover if they had also called at Basingstoke and so something non stop on that section is extremely rare. It is also an extremely difficult time to achieve especially with a maximum of 75 and, in the case of the UKRT ACE, 465 tons gross on the drawbar. The time of 30 minutes from Worting to Salisbury also matched the time that the original ACE was allowed that also enjoyed faster speeds in the dips and a faster pass of Worting. Add to that a quite remarkable speed of 68 over the top of Grateley and that alone would have been enough for one trip.

    But then there was Honiton. Standing around for 20 minutes at Chard watching your fire die is not exactly the ideal way to prepare for an assault of 8 miles of 1 in 100/1 in 80 so it is perhaps unsurprising that Clan Line got a little bit winded part way up the climb. But she rallied towards the top and actually increased speed by 3 mph on the steepest part to run into the tunnel at a commendable 30.

    And then there was Whiteball, again. The same crew on the Torbay Express three weeks previously had already blasted over the top at 62 but with a slower speed passed Cowley Bridge achieved something comparable on the ACE, with 60 at the top. But there then followed a bravura spell of running through to a signal stop waiting for our path at Blatchbridge Junction. Just under 71 miles from Exeter in 68 minutes with an astounding climb up to Brewham, topping the summit at 62.

    Those who were on the train will know that there was more, especially some quite swift spells of running and some periods of acceleration that were almost literally electric. OK, the train was late back into Victoria but as I said earlier we have FGW to thank for that. It is worth mentioning that on the way down, on the Southern, our only out of course check was at Exmouth Junction where we were held for our path.

    Another great day with Clan Line. Thanks once again to DBC and the MNLPS.
     
    1020 Shireman, Johnb, Will RL and 6 others like this.
  5. gricerdon

    gricerdon Guest

    Yes it was some day, possibly the best I have had since 1967. Some of the acceleration away from stops and checks was quite astonishing with 465 tons. Just a shame that GWR can't run a train service or even make sensible decisions when regulating, unlike Southern who were brilliant at Salisbury. Full details in the next Heritage Railway. Good to meet so many old friends from the days of steam and have a pint or two at Exeter with one of the ace drivers from the 1960s, still going strong at 87 years young!
     
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  6. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Part of the furniture Friend

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    Agree with all the above. 35028's performance was a thing of legend yesterday. Shows what a good choice was made on driving wheel size. Tornado is probably the only engine that steams as well as Clan Line but the bigger driving wheels will never allow it to be the equal accelerating from rest and checks. One thing though, why are you giving GWR such stick when surely the signalling decisions were made by Network Rail??
     
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  7. Western Venturer

    Western Venturer Well-Known Member

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    I had a great day chasing 35028 Clan Line working the Atlantic Coast Express thanks to some great driving and planning by Evening Star.. To get 3 shots between Yeovil and Exeter is nothing short of amazing.
    Heres my video of the day..

     
  8. gricerdon

    gricerdon Guest

    Yes agreed signalling decisions are but not the running of the trains themselves which is GWR. NR compounded the problems by poor regulating at both Frome and Swindon. Nobody thought to override the train plan. Neither the Weymouth train nor the Bristol HST would have suffered if they had
     
  9. CLN_WVR

    CLN_WVR Member

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    Pulling out of Deepcut towards Frimley Green

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    About to go under the canal aqueduct at Frimley Green
    [​IMG]
     
  10. IamDaniel

    IamDaniel Member

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    Echoing what's said above - an ACE (geddit?) day out back to my homeland. Was stood with the dropside all the way down for the climb up Honiton and had to pinch myself; she sounded wonderful.

    Nice to see a few faces from previous tours and I'm glad the late arrival of the stock didn't mess things up at all.

    Really looking forward to the Wessex Express in November, mainly as there won't be any GWR trains to get in the way. Half-tempted to stick in a delay repay form for the minutes they've wasted on charters I've been on this year. :p
     
  11. alts1985

    alts1985 Well-Known Member

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  12. BR 73082

    BR 73082 Member

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    To be fair to GWR it sounds as though they were dealing with some delays due to a tree on the line between Westbury and Warminster around 11:30-12:00 and the knock on effect caused by this. That train which delayed us getting into Frome looks like it started Worcester vice Great Malvern due to the late arrival in the inbound stock.

    Still, didn't seem to stop us getting some periods of brisk running between Frome and Reading.
     
  13. CLN_WVR

    CLN_WVR Member

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    Any idea why they held Clan Line at Thingley Jnc to put an HST ahead into Chippenham and then the HST stopped/was held in Chippenham for ages when the line ahead was clear?
     
  14. gricerdon

    gricerdon Guest

    And then stopped us again at Swindon due to the HST spending 10 minutes there. We could have gone passed at 75 mph and been tucked away at Milton before the HST got to Wantage Road. All could have been avoided if we had gone straight into Frome for a splash and dash and then been held at Westbury for our path if necessary. Its not just yesterday but every time I go near the GWR on a charter they manage to muck things up. Yesterday three trains late including the ACE instead of two.
     
  15. richards

    richards Part of the furniture

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    Perhaps railtours are further down the priority list than service trains, which would become delayed return services later in the day and thousands of passengers "mucked up".
     
  16. IamDaniel

    IamDaniel Member

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    There's no doubt about it - you're right on that front.

    One thing that hasn't been touched on was the clever move to put the Penzance train into P5 at Exeter so we could get off on time. It also got rid of a few people from the platform, which was helpful.

    And speaking of Exeter, I found the platform staff really unhelpful/disinterested/rude. There's the lady who shouts at people to get back when taking photos of the loco, but there was a bloke who shut my door. I then opened the window (so I could continue talking to my family), he turned back and looked at me. "Don't worry, I'm just opening the window" I said. "Good for you" was grunt the back.

    Finally, it was a bit of an odd consist yesterday - four dining cars, one first class non-dining and three standards by my reckoning.

    Minor gripes aside though, it was a wonderful day. Hopefully there are plans for a re-run next year when Waterloo and the mainline are both open. If that happens, I'll be on it in a heartbeat.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2017
  17. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Undoubtedly they are but at least NR Control managed to get it right at Tunnel Junction yesterday by reprogramming the signals so we could go ahead of the P'mth - Bristol and Bristol - P'mth services that were both scheduled to cross at the junction at 0936. What actually happened was we swept across the junction unchecked at 0933. Had we been checked then we would have sat around for five minutes for no good reason given that our platform was waiting. Perhaps the person who intervened had a soft spot for Merchant Navy Pacifics rather than local GWR cross country services!

    Contrast that with the Frome debacle that caused us all the problems later on. We were through East Somerset Junction 19 early and could have been at Frome by 1740. Our booked water stop would have seen us away by 1755 and clear of the platform at about the time that the late running Great Malvern to Weymouth service needed it. OK, we may have been held back on the exit at Clink Road or at Westbury but it would have given us a better chance of making our time slot at Thingley. As for delaying "thousands of passengers", I know that charter train passengers do not count in the world of NR priorities but contrast the handful of people on the Weymouth service being delayed possibly by another minute or two with the hundreds on the charter who will have included a few people like me who missed their connection home because of the operating decisions.

    Credit where it is due for the intervention at Salisbury but 'nul points' for the decisions later in the day.
     
  18. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Nominal tractive effort is virtually the same for both. Is there any significant difference in the adhesive weights?
     
  19. free2grice

    free2grice Part of the furniture Friend

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    It's not very often that I defend NR but Clan Line arrived at Blatchbridge Jn. 18 mins early. It had to allow the Weymouth unit to exit the single line from Frome. The unit was only running 7 mins late so it's a bit unfair to expect NR to override the schedule. There was also a west bound HST passing Blatchbridge Jn. while the unit was stopped at Frome.

    As already stated Clan Line enjoyed a brilliant run to the west country yesterday. She runs like a sewing machine. It was also good to see Duchess of Sutherland hauling the Cathedrals Express to Salisbury.

    Well done to all concerned. <BJ>
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2017
  20. derby2

    derby2 New Member

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    Big Al - and others - who have commented on this are not wrong of course. It is an indisputable fact that charters are near the bottom of the pile when it comes to train priorities. That said, the art of 'regulation' is exactly that - and different people (i.e. Controllers) interpret regulation in different ways. It's a bit like a rugby team who have been coached to play in a very specific way, and continue to stick to the 'game plan' even when they're 30 -0 down, whilst other teams can switch quickly to a 'Plan B' by relying on the players to change tactics as the game progresses, and 'think on their feet'. Rigidity versus flexibility you could say, and it seems the 'Southern' - especially at Salisbury - and the 'Western' dealt with the operating issues in this contrasting fashion. When I was a part of the charter planning and timing operation in the industry, I always said that the Golden Rule with steam was "when it's running, keep it running, so don't stop it unnecessarily". At the end of the day though, it's the controllers and signallers who decide.
    To be fair, we had visited Salisbury early last week to speak to the key people about the operating plan there. Having a local signalling panel controlling the station does help of course, but over the years we've always found the rail staff at Salisbury very keen and helpful.
     
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