Building replica rolling stock?

Oh by the way, the reason I was medically retired is that I have Vascular Disease in both of my legs, it is down to the actual system nothing to do with the blood, I was apparantly born with the condition without my parents knowing, please note I said VASCULAR DISEASE and NOT Cardio-Vascular Disease, something somebody thought I had, there is a major difference between the two, but because it all got confused I am now totally unemployable for normal work that I would be paid a salary or wage for. I will keep my ear to the ground as I would ,love to volunteer in some way.

 

Good luck, hope you find something .....!

 

You could argue that a great deal of what you see in many restored coaches is already replica - the number of pre-Mk 1 coaches that come with a full interior is vanishingly small, and in some cases like the LNER Thompsons the quality of the timber frames was so poor that extensive replacement is needed, so we're getting ever closer to de novo building. Even where we have suitable chassis, the ravages of time means that we're now starting to see the need for replacement solebars and headstocks, and gradually were seeing the same of bogies, so it is an evolutionary process. Eventually, someone will put all these individual replacement parts together and a new underframe and bogies will emerge.

 

61624, who can say that the stuff being preserved is in its original state when it is withdrawn?

 

Continuity is the key to deciphering this riddle, in my view. Take a Gresley, because that's what I am familiar with. The majority of those that are currently unrestored will be ex-Departmentals with most, if not all of their interiors removed. Not only are we replacing seats, heaters and the various fittings such as ventilators, we're also having to make new corridor screens etc. As I've said, we may have to replace parts of underframes, bogies, gangways as well as structural timbers, roof boards etc. In the case of the LNERCA we have always gone to great lengths to manufacture the correct parts to replace what is missing, but sometimes one has to be pragmatic and use BR Mk1 parts such as electrical systems because we cannot get the correct Stones ones nowadays, and partly for commonality of spares with Mk 1s. It is a reasonable question to ask at what point we leave the path of restoration and start to veer towards recreation, particularly once we start to change as-designed features.

 

Every item of rolling stock and this includes locomotives goes through modifications during their lifetime of revenue earning service with the railway that owned them originally, as has already been said it takes dedicated volunteers to unpick the modifications to preserve rolling stock in their original as built state if that is what is desired, I hold up my hat to all of those who volunteer to bring back to life every item of rolling stock that is running today that once roamed our main and branch lines around the country. Stand up and take a big bow girls and boys.

 

How about a early riveted tank wagon?

 

I realise it's not the same shape but there is this one: http://www.ws.vintagecarriagestrust.org/ws/WagonInfo.asp?Ref=6904

Edit: And this one: http://www.ws.vintagecarriagestrust.org/ws/WagonInfo.asp?Ref=7511

 

I cant see new carriages ever being built ever for Standard gauge. Technically it could be done but it wouldn't be possible with volunteer labour, it is just too much to do. I have the skills myself where I could build a new wooden body for a coach but working as a volunteer 1 day a week it would take probably 40+ years ! For sure you would need 10+ full time staff to do it who knew what they were doing to achieve it in a realistic timescale and who would pay for all that ? Also anyone interested as a volunteer is probably already involved with some coach or other.

 

Didn't the Wisbech and Upwell coach at the NNR get a brand new chassis and bogies? The team there rebuild and replace great chunks of the bodies and interiors. I dont' see it as at all impossible given the funds and the desire to do it rather than tackle another (increasingly heavy) restoration

 

I think everything has just about been done individually for standard gauge carriages.

But if you started from scratch, wouldn't it be new and therefore not have any grandfather rights and have to meet current standards?

Other than that I don't think starting from scratch would take that much longer than rebuilding a basket case, providing you have all the drawings and plenty of money.

I wouldn't recommend anybody try it though, before the WIBN police arrive.

Sawdust.

 

But what about replica wagons, like a GWR Cordon Gas Tank Wagon (Lower right corner)?

 

Replica narrow gauge passenger passenger stock has been built to the original designs, most notably the W&LLR trio. These were built professionally by the Festiniog Railway but I believe (subject to correction of course) that some items for the F.R. themselves were built by volunteers.

A replica of a private owner coal wagon has been built by W&LLR volunteers and is used in the W&L vintage train.

PH

 

When you look at what gets replaced and the degree of stripping down that has taken place on some rebuilds I would think that if there was the will, a suitable motivation, and the money, new builds could quite well be on the agenda. See Dave Clarke's (@Extension3363 ) albums of work on the Brighton 4 wheelers on the Bluebell as an example:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/extension3363/albums/72157627284241197
https://www.flickr.com/photos/extension3363/albums/72157626600437734

The standard of workmanship evident in the photos seems to me to be amazing. Whilst there are still unrestored carriages awaiting attention I think effort needs to be directed there - new builds are for the missing things, like the narrow gauge examples @paulhitch cited above.

Steve B

 

i agree. There are far too many vehicles in limbo which won't survive indefinitely.

 

I presume that the disability access and other legislative requirements will have been the same for the narrow gauge stock built as would apply to Standard Gauge, but also seem to recall specific, quite high level exemptions have been required some adaptions of original 'materiel' (a disabled access 4 wheeeler on the IoWSR rings a bell on this). Hence, I suspect grandfather rights can be coped with, given the right people, patience and expertise.

What I can see is adapting available 'basket cases' or parts into more useful vehicles - e.g. rebuilding an available chassis and poor brake body into an all passenger coach or catering version of the same original 'family' of design.

There are lots of 'potentially restorable' things out there (I was at Butterley on Saturday afternoon.....) but at present not necessarily, or perhaps in some cases just visibly, the resources to restore them before they go 'beyond hope' - and at what point does a 'restoration' become a 'replica'?

(I gather the answer is very different in the Warbird world!)

Steven

 

the Lynton & Barnstable coaches are a great example. Technically rebuilds, I'd say they are pretty much new vehicles in essence (and gorgeous)

 

You are right about the L&BR coaches, we where talking about them over the weekend at Woody Bay the first coach to be restored coach 7 is just about to have some major work done to it some of the original panels need to be replaced just can't get the timber to last this day and age, but at over 100 years old I guess it is time to replace it with today's modern marine ply.

 

What is the specific issue please? Other than protected tropical hardwoods (which often cost a king's ransom on the recycled market), are suitably seasoned types unsuitable, or simply too expensive?

 

In a nutshell everything rots except teak. Even that will rot if conditions are right. Plywood doesn't last well on the outside of railway carriages in my experience, added to which the quality of plywood has become very variable and is not what it was even ten years ago. If hardwood panels have split they can be repaired successfully using epoxy resin based adhesive systems and can be reinforced with fabric glued on the the reverse.

Sawdust.