Trawsfynydd and Blaenau Ffestiniog Railway

Fixed your post for you...

Keith

 

If I listened to the negativity of my neighbours, I never would have extended my house. Consider that, for a moment.

Realism? Wales has nothing compared to England in terms of standard gauge preservation. North and south are effectively cut off. The south was really decimated by the Beeching Cuts. Virtually everything was destroyed or built over. Many lines can never return. Only Llangollen can be taken seriously or mentioned in the same breath as many of the stunning sights the English lines can offer. Having seen for myself what both countries have to offer. It's deeply unfair and shows a lack of money spending and investment. I have a saying: "You judge the master not by his wealth, but by how well he treats his servants."

We're asking for a little more equality here.

7 miles of the line remains in situ. Again, decommissioning that nuclear relic is going to take a very long time, since it's so highly radioactive, so the link is under no threat of disappearing, and many of us would like to see it get some use. The line itself is pretty ride, and if it could get there, breathtaking when it gets to the mountainous areas by the viaduct. It follows a main road, and connection to the national network. So it has access. It could possibly be a proper community link when it becomes a going concern. The main argument "why would anyone want to see it?" doesn't seem to carry much weight.

If it fails, then it fails. But at least you can say "we tried", at least it has a better chance than many of the disasterous attempts in the south over the last thirty years.

 

If it is expected that the line will be needed at some future date in connection with decommisioning the nuclear power station, does that not mean that it must remain in public ownership, either Network Rail or some other public body?

 

If you really think what people say on here will effect whether this scheme will succeed or not, then you're kidding yourself. It will only succeed if it captures the public imagination.

Sawdust.

 

@ MellishR It's expected to take a hundred years to restore the site to its pre-nuclear state. 2083 is the earliest projection, but given the government, spin, and the insane cost, that's optimistic at best. Network Rail purposefully mothballed the line because it's needed to transport the dismantled building and components therein. The easiest method to get rid of it for further processing/long-term storage is by rail to Sellafield.

2020-2026, the top parts of the two reactor buildings height will be reduced. The steel reactor cores removal is scheduled to begin in 2071. So, that part of the line is safe. I hope the rest of the route is safeguarded, despite its remoteness, you'll always get a prat in planning who will stick a house straight on top on the trackbed.

@ Sawdust, I'm little surprised by that comment. I see what you were trying to imply but it didn't sit right with me. The line is scenic and can pull double duty as a political museum for what Liverpool did to a community and a nuclear power muesum as well. Suggesting and sharing ideas, just like that. That is one of the purposes of the forum. Have a debate.

@ Sidmouth, you misunderstand me. I am not protesting or asking you to sign up and start contributing, etc. I'm asking people to stop being so darn defeatist about this. We're sitting on our backsides typing here while others are trying to change something for the better. The least we could do is say "good luck" even if you didn't sincerely mean it. We've already had another user call out people's behaviour and the apparent contradiction that we've signed up to a National Preservation forum, only to condemn people's hard work. No one visiting back in the 90s or 2000s condemned the boys down in Swansea and Barry for trying with their lost causes. They just sat back and grinned.

No community is immune to trolls or people who love to watch others fail. That attitude must be purged if we are to be taken seriously. Again, don't misunderstand me - this is a far bigger issue. Elitism. And nothing is more devastating than working hard for a thankless task, and seeing a visitor from SVR or GCR etc, come over to Wales and, not say hello or goodbye, not praise you for your aspirations and ambitions, but smirk in your face saying "you have a poor miserable lot" or "you are a joke", and then gloat about it. That happened to me several times while volunteering, and it shouldn't have. I expect rubbish from customers and passengers, but not fellow volunteers in the movement (perhaps this is a bigger subject).

Can we lighten up, just a little? Look for ways it could work, before throwing in the towel on round 1?

 

Call me biased but I don't agree with that at all. Come and ride on the new Gwili extension and tell me the scenery isn't comparable to others across the border.

Yes South Wales has always lagged behind hirstorically but at least we have two SG lines now who have serious ambitions and have track records (pardon the pun) of recent successful extensions. The solution isn't more lines but get behind the existing ones and make them a success...

Regards

Matt

 

Have to agree with you. Problem is, trying to use a blasted ipad, and trying to mention everything, is almost impossible. Battery's either dying, or it crashes when you go off the tab typing your response out. Llangollen is comparable to the big preserved lines in England. Yes, Gwili and Pontypool and potential upcoming railways, and contenders to reverse the decline the south's experiencing. They aren't quite there yet, and there always seems to be something stopping them or hindering their progress from achieving "notable status". Bridges or bloody cycle tarmac paths.

We had serious restoration attempts with the Vale of Neath, and Caerphilly. We had an experience and atmosphere for visitors. Before either local authorities rejected proposals or others were, burgled into oblivion. Where we had actual Great Western locomotives running. Nowadays we have nothing except the Pontypool Pannier (not working) and the Taff Vale 28 (not working). Industrial locomotives are nice, but not part of that authenticate experience people and photographers are looking for.

Point I'm making is, if the boys up in Trawsfynydd want their line back, let them have it.

 

You can buy Brighton Rock on the pier, but the Brighton Rock shop 100mtrs west has been successfully selling the same vile confection too, for as long as anyone can remember.... just, not to me!

My own post (which, be it known, didn't advocate reopening to Bala) specifically spoke about growing the Welsh Tourist sector. While the current UK policy of telling everyone from Europe to b-**-r off might, in some alternative reality, acheive this, dare I suggest there are areas in dire need of economic stimulus singularly failing to develop anything like their potential?

The argument that 'I can't afford to visit every line' is one I find spurious and not a little self-centred. I can't afford to visit every pub in Brighton and Hove (though in certain cases, I don't feel too deprived!). While many of us enthusiasts may see this as an aim, it doesn't follow that this holds true for for the bulk of the leisure market. People will choose a holiday location for any number of reasons and take advantage of a train ride if it suits them. Some may be drawn to North Wales by Portmerion and ride the Ffesterbahn as a 'bonus attraction', or Castell Caernarfon, when the WHR may benefit from their custom.

As a callow (or irritating) 11 year old, I had to move heaven and earth to get my parents to see North Wales as our family holiday destination. I knew why I wanted to go, but once I'd dug out details of a few horse riding shools, my sister was sold and subliminal propadanda in the form of a recording of a male voice chior banging out 'Men of Harlech' worked on my mother. Dad, for the sake of an easy life, fell into line in due course. Other than being accompanied to the VoR, due to the need to change trains at Dyfi Jnc, my father left me to roam the Cambrian Coat line (a lovely experience from the end of a 1st gen DMMU) the Fairbourne, Talyllyn and Ffestiniog all by myself. Point is, of a family of five, only one of us was a railway enthusiast.

The notion that tourist custom is drawn from a market of fixed size reflects an outlook of at best, despair and at worst, outright complacency. Believing railways the only conceivable reason for a family to visit an area is slightly odd too.

Taken in isolation, on top of the FR, LR and BLR the T&BF probably would be speading existing jam a bit thin, but for the wider economy, surely the better solution is ... more jam.

 

Why do you think the Llangollen crew cannot extend beyond Corwen? If they deviated the original route around the car parks into the adjacent farm fields, to later rejoin back up to the line's path after the A5 road, they could do it. Engineering wise, its not impossible. Purchasing property and sorting out Land Registry is the pain in the backside, I'll grant you. Better to say, its hard/unlikely, rather than never.

 

No, it's never. I can quite confidently say that the railway will never go beyond Corwen. This diversion you propose would cross the flood plain & would not be allowed.

 

Lots of points to pick up on...

Local Authority support has been a major factor in the expansion of the Gwili and P & B. If this continues and other support is maintained then there isn't any reason why the obstacles can't be overcome.

Lack of copper caps- if we put aside the visitors for short periods, the only residents that have operated in GWR terms in South Wales are 5322, (Caerphilly) 9642 (briefly, Swansea Vale) and TVR28 (Caerphilly). This is a very poor record considering just how many GWR engines were on the doorstep at Barry. This is where we have lost so much across the border and where indeed the balance needs redressing.

Getting 9629 and TVR28 into service would be a start but both are long-term projects. At least TVR28 is now back in one piece and not scattered about in several pieces across the border. In Wales we have to take the small victories...

Nevertheless South Wales did reasonably well in securing their own engines from industry and this has served the Gwili and P&B well.

Which brings us back to the Trawsfynydd branch. I think that looking at it in terms of a community project, clearing the derelict line and making it less of an overgrown eyesore is admirable and should be supported. Pretending it's going to be the next Severn Valley or even Dean Forest or Chinnor is pie-in-the sky.

Regards

Matt

 

Oh ****. I haven't been that far westwards. thought those were farm fields, not flood plains. Unless... the authority would support a railway line that pulls its weight as a flood defence embankment as well, then, yeah its a no go.

@ Matt78 By councils, retrospectively, I don't mean Torfaen and Carmarthenshire. I'm referring to the Vale of Glamorgan, Swansea and Bridgend. When they drop you like a sack of potatoes, boy do you feel it. Speaking of the latter, the Garw valley is in a similar position to Trawsfynydd. The line was and still is, in situ, yet... virtually no progress has been made from what I can gather operations-wise. It wasn't until I stumbled upon a YouTube video of an open day, did I realise they still even existed.

Granted it'll never be massive, but it can be unique. Trawsfynydd and Anglesey Central Railway ought to have a free pass as far as the community is concerned. They simply haven't been around long enough to get established, let alone judged by "Bluebell Railway standards".

The reason why I'm emphasizing this is because talk, can be dangerous. Anyone casually browsing through the threads here out of curiosity could easily be put off ever going there or helping the cause, by reading some of the posts here. And that's certainly not in the spirit of 'preserving the past'.

 

I'm going to have to retract my earlier statement about possible hopes of reaching Cwn Prysor for the views/spectacle.

It can't. Someone slapped a house and garage, directly next to a railway bridge, on the trackbed, and that's before we even worry about deviating the route thanks to Trawsfynydd station becoming a private residence.

Not impossible, but god, the money to try and correct this/purchase the land, its in the millions easily.

Why the hell didn't Britain safeguard its railway links? Its madness. Its a conspiracy, like the automotive and oil industry never wanted to see Britain's rail network return to the way it was, ever. Not even partially. What... were they thinking?

 

Someone will be along shortly to tell you you’re being too negative and if only people pulled together anything’s possible…

;-)

Simon

 

Hello from someome who remembers Ffesterbahn vs CEGB!

 

i think it's rich to describe the Gwili and P&B as "not quite there" when they both are well developed lines with their own USPs whereas the T&BF is merely an overgrown mothballed line with nothing at either end and not really remarkable scenery en route. Probably the nuclear plant contrives to make it the least attractive line in Wales and I can't help feeling there has to be a better reason to restore it than "because it's there".

 

When will nuclear decommissioning traffic be required, if at all?

 

Indeed. Neither Gwili nor P & B can claim to be in the mythical "premier league" but then again there is a certain charm about some of the smaller lines which does not always get replicated in the so-called "Premier League". I would expect both lines to develop from now on at a faster rate than they have done in the past.

Regards

Matt

 

yes, the Gwili has really nice scenery and a major town and trunk route at one end and the P&B is worth seeing for the gritty nature of it, with indutrial dereliction prevalent and the big Pit at one end of it. Whilst SOuth Wales doesn't have a happy history for preserved lines, these two and also the Barry line perhaps (which I haven't visited) seem to be viable.

Frankly it's enough. Lets not forget Oswestry either, alhthough I haven't visited there either.