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GWSR Broadway Developments

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by Breva, Aug 1, 2014.

  1. jnc

    jnc Well-Known Member

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    There are three issues here, and they seem to be getting mixed together:
    • Whether a cafe or a shop (or both) is the right thing to have there
    • Whether either is acceptable on heritage grounds
    • How (and when) the decision was made
    I think it's quite clear that the third is the key issue; without that, I think there would likely have been discussion, but nothing like the outpouring we've seen. Had the Board said something like 'We've been going through the details, and we're not sure if we'll be able to staff a cafe, maybe we should turn it into a shop, the one on-site during the build seems to be doing well, what do people think', there would have been a debate, but not this. It was the decision to announce a fait accompli, without consultation, that's the cause of this.

    Noel
     
  2. Bill Drewett

    Bill Drewett Member

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    That's what it says at the moment. I think the negotiations are continuing. If by 'winging it' you meant 'not able to guarantee car parking from day 1', that seems a bit harsh to me.
     
  3. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    The car park AIUI is a more complex issue involving the council. There seems little point in bashing the board over that as it's clearly not an ideal position for anyone, it's not like the board don't want a car park. So I don't really see how it relates to the cafe, the two aren't really connected at all.

    The announcement last month shows the board is largely on top of things. Enough of the board are around often enough to satisfy me, I can talk to the CoSec in C+W, the commercial director whilst getting a tea (from a cafe...) and a few others that are often hanging around, including Alan Bielby. There are a few directors that I've never seen in my five years, but they're more involved in the civil engineering side so I'm less likely to anyway. The railway is a very friendly place to volunteer, no doubt about it. As I recall the boardroom blog was set up 5 years ago to stop exactly this kind of thing happening, and whatever your opinion of the chairman at the time, he did a brilliant job on that blog, it's crashed and burned since, despite my and several others' irregular prodding. A relatively simple solution then for the board - use your blog!
     
  4. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    On your third point, the “how and when”: the planning application documents shown up thread show a cafe and waiting room (no shop) on the drawing, but talk about a “shop and snack bar” in the written description. Which is at the least inconsistent. It does rather suggest though that this maybe isn’t the eleventh hour change that is being painted, and the concept of a shop plus very minimal catering facilities was an explicit consideration in the planning application. Whether that point was then poorly communicated subsequently to those building and paying for the station I’m not qualified to say.

    Tom
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2017
  5. AndyY

    AndyY Member

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    I think the main problem here was that this facility wasn't actually on the station!
    Andy
     
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  6. AndyY

    AndyY Member

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    Maybe, but that's another issue, nothing to do with 'café vs shop'
    Andy
     
  7. AndyY

    AndyY Member

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    Who actually does the most achieving, those sitting at the boardroom table making apparently arbitrary decisions, or the bunch of guys slaving away in all weathers to recreate the station building? Whilst the former might be a necessary evil, my hat (if I had one) goes off to the latter!
     
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  8. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    That is touching on sentimental I fear. Both have a part to play.

    PH
     
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  9. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I always get a bit uncomfortable when I see things like this, especially when plenty of directors are also slaving away in all weathers in addition to sitting round the table.
     
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  10. AndyY

    AndyY Member

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    In which case they deserve our double thanks!
    But I guess whoever is making decisions about the Broadway building can't be on the ground working with the BAG team, or there wouldn't be the disconnect we're seeing.
     
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  11. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    It is indeed a shame that there are no regular Broadway volunteers on the board. As I recall Bill Britton stood for election around 2014 but didn't get enough vote. :/
     
  12. toplight

    toplight Well-Known Member

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    One of the things that I would expect affects thinking about the cafe is existing operations. At Winchcombe there is a big room in the station which when I used to volunteer there was mostly empty and just used occasionally. I have been since as a visitor and it was being used as a 1950s style tea room which was very nice. Is that still going and has it been successful financially and have they been able to find volunteers to staff it ? That is the key question I would expect, can staff be found for a tea room/cafe at Broadway to make it viable ? Probably Broadway is in a better location being at the end of the line.

    I think with cafes it is one of them jobs, everyone wants one, but they don't want to spend their spare time working in it

    Also wanted to ask about the Footbridge and the issue of it being too close to the building (and not inline with the building roof) leaving insufficient room for the canopy. I went recently and there is no stairs on it yet so could it be lifted with a crane and moved to the correct spot. ? How difficult would that be ?
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2017
  13. FearOfManchester

    FearOfManchester Member

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    I saw a few comments on the blog from active volunteers working on broadway who said until the recent announcement that it was their intention to transition into manning the cafe facilities after the building work had wound down as after the effort of rebuilding broadway they wanted lighter duties. Personally I think they'd have no trouble finding volunteers for the cafe from among the ranks of the broadway group, that's the thing isn't it, I think the board made their decision based on the workload of the EXISTING catering team, rather than looking for staff among other volunteer groups on the railway. Some of those volunteers have been working on building broadway for 8 years now, of course some of them will want to stick around and enjoy their efforts after it's all done. whether that be manning the cafe, booking office, general maintenance etc.
     
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  14. Breva

    Breva Well-Known Member

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    The way it went was that there were several candidates, and the board indicated on the list which ones they preferred! Not Bill....
     
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  15. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

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    Yes it's still going and seemed busy last time I visited a few weeks ago.
     
  16. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Really? As I recall, that year there were a few directors up for re-election, which the board endorsed, but also one vacancy that was contested by Richard Johnson and Bill Britton. I don't recall any favour for Richard over Bill, although it didn't entirely surprise me Richard won as his name is probably better known. I might still have the relevant documents, will check at the weekend. Still, Bill would I'm sure have only added to the skills and effectiveness of the board.

    Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
     
  17. Bean-counter

    Bean-counter Part of the furniture

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    Communication seems to have been the biggest issue on 'Cafegate' - who knows, perhaps each side assuming they knew what going to happen and that the other did as well.

    The decision on Cafe/Shop/Waiting Area/whatever is largely a commercial one and I would find it odd if those building it were left to make the decision, but they definitely deserve, if only for obvious practical reasons, to know what they are building!

    If the build team was planning to offer people to staff the cafe, then two way communication might have solved the issue - cafes tend to be more labour intensive than shops, although that often is because they are offering too complex a menu (maybe to satisfy what the work force rather visitors are looking for......)

    I see there is an element of the GWSR who subscribe to the 'all management are a (grudging voice on 'necessary') evil, they are 'bad' people and only those wielding a hammer/paint brush/spade/shovel/regulator/flag/lever etc. does any work of value'. I find it sad that as a major expansion programme nears an end, the essential part played by those doing physical work is being (rightly) acknowledged but the hours of effort behind the scenes in planning and funding, and indeed all the work undertaken by the Board in running what others acknowledge is a well run railway, is totally dismissed.

    Steven
     
  18. ianh

    ianh Member

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    Bean-counter mentions a major expansion nears an end...... not quite - opening the station with track and trains is only the first verse.... Footbridge, signalling and P2 building are all still to come.... now can you imagine the scene.. sitting in the P1 cafe watching the BAG laying blocks on the P2 building whilst enjoying some fine local fare purvayed with a smile and a donation box knowing that you can spend and watch at the same time...
     
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  19. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Agreed, but there has been plenty of mentions of a cafe at Broadway within the last 2 years that haven't been corrected, including by the person in charge of construction in the last but one volunteer newsletter, which is a little worrying.

    I was about to point this out myself! Just because folk can expertly lay bricks and do a beautiful job of bringing a station building back from the ground up, doesn't make them commercial gurus.

    This is what annoys me most (can you tell!?), much more than the cafe issue itself, especially when some directors even fall into both categories anyway! I've written several grumpy posts/blog comments/internal emails on this before, it's just a ridiculous mentality.
     
  20. 1472

    1472 Well-Known Member

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    It sounds a very tall order that in 2017 -8 a cash strapped local authority will invest even a penny piece in providing a car park for a heritage railway - unless there is much more to it than simply that.
     
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