Paint froth question!

Brunel's *original* design included piles going down into the formation, and that was considerably worse than "didn't work well", because the track sagged between piles and the ride was appalling. AIUI both were adequate, but baulk road on broad gauge used less timber than cross sleepered track, hence was cheaper, but baulk road on narrow gauge used more timber than cross sleepered, so once the broad gauge was gone there was no reason to keep baulk road.

 

Since it seems that the brown auto tank livery dates from 1905, the year before the big livery changes then it might well have been in conjunction with the full polished domes, smokebox rings etc.

However would this have been in conjunction with Indian Red frames? I think that would look a bit odd so most likely they would be black below the footplate to match the coaches.

 

Looks very good in BR Black...................

 

You need to go to Specsavers!!

 

Please explain? What is Fletcher's patent? I always thought the basis for the model was a LSWR Drummond C14 BR no 30590.
Nellie was a very attractive model. I remember coveting my neighbour's Hornby "Rural Rambler" set in spring of '76

 

Which 'commandment' covers that one again?

 

I might be wrong, but I’ve always understood Fletcher’s patent to be an arrangement of inside valve gear on a very short wheelbase loco, typically a small four coupled loco. The eccentrics are mounted on the leading axle and the eccentric rods then run backwards to the expansion link situated in front of the rear axle. The valve rod then runs forwards back to the valve chest of the cylinders. In essence, the valve gear is folded in half. By making the rear axle unencumbered with eccentrics, it means the firebox can sit over the rear axle, rather than having to sit behind it, which helps keep the loco very short and compact.

“Captain Baxter” at the Bluebell has the valve gear arranged like that: I’ve never looked but I assume the other surviving Fletcher-Jennings locos are arranged in similar fashion.

Tom

 

Good description. I was being a bit fascetious when referring to Nellie. It was the inside cylinders which made it impossible due to the big ends rather than the eccentrics so Fletcher's patent wouldn't have helped. The real C14 and S14 classes had outside cylinders and valve gear.

The absence of outside cylinders on an entry level Triang model isn't surprising when they also omitted the outside frames on their 08 diesel.

 

Although Captain Baxter fits your theory I always understood its main reason/advantage was to allow a long wheelbase with the rear axle to the rear of the firebox, thus creating a more stable locomotive. Talyllyn No.2 is a prime example of this. Need to look u pthe patent.

 

Described by Edward Thomas from memory as a 'very peculiar motion' and rather prone to trapping anyone mad enough to work on Dolgoch according to Rolt.

Possibly a mechanism designed by someone who thought that those who worked on it could do with earning some time off Purgatory.

 

Thanks Steve - would be interesting to see the original patent.

Tom

 

As built, the C14s were 2-2-0T - essentially they were a standalone version of the rail motor locomotives. I wonder if they were the last such design to that wheel arrangement ever constructed for a mainline railway in the UK? The 0-4-0T was a later version, and the some of the C14s were rebuilt to conform by Urie, the others being withdrawn. the last few soldiered on into BR days - another example of the Southern preference for keeping antiquated locos rather than designing a replacement going if they fitted a specific niche.

As rebuilt to 0-4-0T:

https://mikemorant.smugmug.com/keyword/30589;quay/i-mh6qcNK/A

(Apologies in advance for a gratuitous use of BR mixed traffic lined black livery in the above image. Viewers of a frail disposition have been warned. I wouldn't normally link to such images, but in this case it seems appropriate as it so incongruous seeing such a tiny engine sporting that livery).


As originally built C14 2-2-0T



(Source: http://1920slocomotives.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/southampton-docks.html)

Tom

 

Fletcher's Patent;

The patent actually specified the rear axle beneath the firebox. The first one was constructed speculatively and sold to an Aberdare iron works. Even before it was finished the Severn and Wye Railway ordered one with flangeless wheels.

Dolgoch was unique in having the axle behind the firebox.

The same patent also covered pairs of such locos permanently coupled back to back under the control of a single driver, none were built (it was also suggested that the boilers be linked by a flexible pipe and the reversing gear be linked).

 

Yes, the C14 was the basis for Triang,s Nellie, I always liked the model, I’ve got the blue one, which has been mine since it as bought for me on my 7th birthday in 1967! Another obscure prototype which the used as the basis of another of their small models was the Dock Authority diesel, using the Transcontinental bo-bo power bogie, that was loosely based on a Bagnall type

Sorry for thread drift, and ta for the photos

 

I always liked the Blue Nellie, because it looked right. Back then I wasn't aware of the prototype. Surprised that Triang didn't do a SR or BR version.

 

Thanks for the info. Looks like Tom was closer to the patent than my suggestion, gleaned from my Talyllyn years and Rolt's Railway Adventure.
Intrigued how a flangeless wheeled 0-4-0 would work, though!

 

At that date the Severn and Wye was still a plateway with flanged rails on stone blocks.



Interestingly Fletcher Jennings' order book gives the wheelbase as only 4'6" suggesting that it might originally have been ordered as a conventional loco with the driving axle in front of the firebox but revised before construction.

 

IIRC, unlikely as it sounds, at least one of these locos was converted to 7'-01/4" gauge along with it's railway.

 

That's right, nos 2 and 3 were, and then three years later to standard gauge! No 2 later being fitted with benches alongside the boiler and an overall roof for inspection purposes. By the time they were eventually disposed of an advert suggests they had additionally been fitted with saddle tanks.

 

Woops! that was supposed to be an edit of the preceding post clarifying their approximate original gauge.