Current and Proposed New-Builds

I'm not trying to undermine Riddles reputation. He and his team built an excellent range of standard locomotives that served BR well albeit had woefully short working lives which in hindsight should have been apparent to all in charge of BR and transport in this country.

What I dispute is the original quotation that was attributed to Riddles by Hermod. The idea that Pacific locomotives in this country were not utilised well or didn't serve their railways well is patently a nonsense. For it to come from someone whose team went on to design three types of pacifics for use in this country, no less, is mind boggling.

It is clear that the LMS and LNER utilised Pacific locomotives pre-war very well in a variety of ways, including publicity. During and post war, the Southern Region and to some extent BR did too, particularly where the Bulleid Light Pacifics and the Britannias were concerned.

Given the fact that Riddles comments surfaced within a few years of the first Brits being built that seems incredible. I would like to read the original comment and its exact context because the disconnect between making that comment and having literally just authorised building of new Pacifics seems absurd!

 

Yes - I should have phrased that better, admittedly. Hands in the air!

I'm not certain it is right to say they were a "match" for the A1s. That simply isn't the case and you can see this in the length of trains, the speed and routes they were employed on. The A1s (and later A10s then B1s) eliminated GCR 4-6-0s by the 1940s on the GC routes. They were adequate for the time they were built in but the Robinson 4-6-0s of varying wheel sizes and drive were just not very good at all. I dare say that if you look at the GCR's 4-6-0s and then to the GWR's smaller 2 and 4 cylinder 4-6-0s you can see the gulf between the designers.

It has always perplexed me that Robinson was apparently first choice for the LNER CME position; that he deferred to Gresley in 1923 was one of railway history's defining moments. Best decision Robinson ever made.

I am sure they did do the work that was asked of them; by the same token, so did Thompson's designs (and look at the criticism he receives by comparison).

 

but it didn't break - unlike some running at high rpm

 

Perhaps Authority managed stop it before the calamity happened!

 

there was a small passage of time before Authority got to hear of it. 92178 if my memory serves

 

I cannot comment from experience . Tuplin thought they were all rubbish = but he was not the most reliable in his views or solutions .
Alan Blencow reckoned a B1 was better than any of them . I suspect he was right .

whatever the truth they made great pics - see the GCR website .
the GCR were responsible for some truly great locos Director, PomPom, and the O4.you could probably include the A5 as well

Robinson declined the CME job solely because of his age . it is a tad unfair to criticise him . he had a wonderful career and was a very talented man. dunno if there is a biography but look him up in Graces Guide

 

Yes there is. It is called "J.G. Robinson A Lifetime's Work" by David Jackson. It is clear that he was not a designer as such and there were a number of distinct "eras" depending upon whom was the current Chief Draughtsman and the degree of influence of individual manufacturers such as NBL or Beyer Peacock may have had at any given time.

PH

 

True of many CMEs good and bad that they managed the design process rather than doing their designs themselves. They were busy men!
Robinson made some fine contributions (not least his superheater) and also built some duds. Also true of many CMEs...
His engines were very nice to look at, which, given only 2 survive, is all that matters about the rest, now!

 

he was also GM of the OWW --Oxford Worcester & Wolverhampton ? (the Old Worse & Worse) which was in a parlous state . he turned it round very successfully

 

Your reply is much appreciated. My principal concern in all this is merely to try and establish the context in which certain historic events occured (or didn't, as the case may be). In fairness to folks discussing steam issues, may I suggest the diesel related part of this discussion be continued over on a new thread within the Diesel & Electric section, if you're agreeable?

 

The GCR is poorly represented, only with Butler Henderson representing the railway.
Why not choose several classic GCR designs?

Parker N5 Class 0-6-2

Robinson B9 Class 4-6-0

Or a Robinson C5 Class 4-4-2

 

That B9 looks nice, not sure about the N5 though, if we're thinking about a (theoretical) new build tank I'd quite like a J50. Such an unusual look! Surprised a certain Mr Awdrey didn't use one as the basis for a character in his books.

 

N5 9311 was a one off with extended side tanks.

 

Lord Faringdons were given an average start to stop schedule of 54mph Leed-KX with upto 85mph. For the era, that wasnt bad. If, like the Stars, and A1s they had gradually had the flaws engineered out of them, sure the B1s were better, some 25 years on so they should be! A new build Valour would be an enormous task, with a modern front end and fire grate modification, wow! A Pom-Pom or Immingham might be better for preservation unless it would get huge support. Or de-accession Butler Henderson and make it go!

 

Well there is this: https://www.facebook.com/TheJ50Group/ but I wouldn't hold your breath - they've been going for 4.5 years, and they don't seem to have all the drawings yet, never mind getting to cutting steel.


Keith

 

You've lost me a bit now. Who do you mean? (I thought we were talking about J G Robinson who would have been 4 yrs old when the OW&W disappeared upon amalgamation).

 

2 out of those three look glorious, but when folk think of the GCR, they always think of good looking locos and like @D6332found said ... there's "Butler Henderon" that could be put back in steam, so let's go with the fugly one for a change!

 

Theres also the ROD from the GC, 63601

 

..... and (getting a bit ahead of ourselves, I know) there's the planned GCR Class 2 (LNER D7) which seems to be making headway.
https://www.gcr567loco.co.uk/

 

Good point. I had forgotten about that one. I think that will probably be in the second group of new builds to be completed after ones like 32424, 2999, 6880, the NER G5 and the P2 are done