West Somerset Railway General Discussion

The same can be said of Taunton where there is not only a rail service but a more wealthy demographic.

I'm surprised that the Minehead undertakers have closed. I didn't think it was a dying trade. Do MCOC think that had there been a rail link then perhaps more people would have snuffed it ?

 

Isn't it exactly that?

 

My town is in London commuter belt territory and our frequent rail service, four trains an hour in each direction, makes out of town shopping easy. So having a rail link won't necessarily save Minehead's shopkeepers, it might do the opposite. As you say the greatest obstacle is the cost of rentals, most of the shops that have closed in my town have closed because they can't afford the every increasing rental demands of greedy landlords, who, it would seem, prefer an empty shop to one that's rented and bringing them in an income.

 

A good point. The shopping in Taunton is (and always will be) superior to Minehead and a Rail link would make that more accessible.

Robin
(1) just off to Taunton for some shopping and (2) who realised that my new-found commitment to shopping of a few years ago may not be universal on this thread....

 

Yes, business rates are set by central government, but it's local (or perhaps not so local) property owners who set the rentals, some appear to see tenants as magic money trees. Perhaps Minehead CoC should be thinking of ways to reward landlords who keep rents low and encourage businesses to open and stay open instead of forcing them out of business with rents they can't afford to pay.

 

Surely rents are a product of supply and demand.

 

But in a market in which customers have significantly weaker position than landlords.


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Is that always the case? Ultimately if landlords set their rent too high they will not get tenants.That is how an open market economy works. The media are always talking of "greedy" landlords and inevitably there are some. Nevertheless eventually they will drop their prices or go out of business.

 

In the long run, yes. In the short run, not necessarily as tenants may feel obliged to pay uneconomic rents to secure property.


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The Dawlish Donkeys later ran for a few summers between Exeter and Paignton, with trips to Kingswear on the Sundays. Two return trips during the week from Exeter to Paignton, times at http://www.uksteam.info/tours/t01/tdwdky.htm

The weekday loadings were pitiful - if it got into three figures it was a busy trip! The Sunday trips were well loaded though, hence why the Torbays were started.

 

Sorry but a Pointless list!

A lot of these shops have not closed, they have either moved or changed names.
It would take far too long to reply to each and everyone.
A rail link would MAKE NO DIFFERANCE to any of the above shops, actually it could make things worse because prople would have better access to other areas to shop!
Also online shopping is a major factor.
You just need to walk around the town to find shops providing most of what the above list offered.
Robin F.

 

If this was a tragedy then we should seek to reverse it. Has anyone gone back to say "We made a mistake, we know that you have acted on that mistake but ultimately we would like to run into the northern bay at Taunton. We appreciate that it may not be possible in the short term but could you please protect that route from any further incursion and bear in mind our ambition when considering further works."

Sadly on this forum there appears precious little appetite for the connection at any cost so I ask again, is it purely the finance that is the objection to running trains to and from Taunton?

I invite you to take your preservationist hat off for a moment and consider those growing up in the area - https://www.theguardian.com/society...rset-bears-brunt-of-social-mobility-challenge
It is not just bad, it's the worst in the entire country.

The worst in the entire country - bar none

Think of all the slums and downtrodden areas of the north, well there is less opportunity in West Somerset than any of them. Here I should declare a personal interest in this. I do know what I am talking about because my son and his wife are working hard against the odds to earn a living trading here and I have a 3 year old grandson whose future depends on the prosperity of the area.

Because of the financial hardships and lack of opportunities in the area there is and will be money available for sensible schemes that will help improve the local economy - for example https://somersetnewsroom.com/2017/10/11/opportunity-knocks-in-west-somerset/

The Bluebell extension cost £11 million largely raised from members and the public. The West Highland was rebuilt, an A1 pacific was built from scratch and a Patriot is nearing completion. In our own area the Lynton and Barnstaple Railway is being rebuilt - how totally crazy is that! It will cost a king's ransom but I am sure that it will happen because the one thing that unites all these schemes is that people wanted it to happen. They had a burning desire for it to happen and were not going to let anything get in their way. I don't see that with the WSR so it is left to the DeMendozas of the world to promote the cause.

I am as committed as anyone to the preservation side of the railway which gives a huge boost to the local economy that mustn't be lost but I cannot see a problem with the railway being used for transport as well as tourism and heritage.

 

But all of the examples you cite are existing simply to act as tourist attractions in their own right. No-one is trying to revive the Lynton and Banstaple because they think it might offer a viable way to travel between those two towns. No-one put money into Tornado in the hope that one day it might be pulling the 10am out of Kingscross to Newcastle, day-in, day-out. Those things exist simply because they are attractive themselves.

By the same token - far and away the greatest gift the WSR can give to West Somerset is simply to do as well as it is able what it currently does: act as an attractive entity that causes people to visit it on its own merits, and in the process spend money in the local economy. If you want a big vision, "be the most popular tourist attraction we can be" will bring far more benefit than "struggle to provide a half-decent transport function that few people use and requires significant public subsidy".

Tom

 

That seems reasonable.

I think almost everyone would be pleased to see some sort of regular service between Taunton and the WSR, but only if it could be provided without detriment to the existing WSR operations. Opinions differ as to the usefulness and practicality (including the little matter of costs) of various forms that it could in principle take (e.g. connection at BL or through trains, whether only when the existing WSR services are running or all year round, whether aimed at traffic originating in Minehead or elsewhere, etc). Some opinions are realistic, others not remotely realistic. Opinions also differ as to the value of the existing operations, a certain person and his disciples regarding them as playing trains and failing to recognise (or wilfully ignoring) the value of the trade that they bring to Minehead and its surroundings.

And BTW this discussion belongs on the http://www.national-preservation.co...way-viability-of-extending-to-taunton.541153/ thread, not here.

 

Are there 2 Taunton's?

 

I can see problems, due to a toxic mixture of costs, capacity, and legislation.

The combination of public transport and heritage objectives sit poorly together, worsened by the length of the line, and there is a massive risk that the attempt to combine them will fail on both counts.

When I make my annual trip to Barnstaple, I always take the Porlock route; generally via Bishops Lydeard rather than fighting the traffic in Bridgwater. I am always taken aback by just how short a distance I drive compared to the route the railway takes. That is still true if I dip into Watchet as the bus does.


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The reality is quite often different. Joe Bloggs shop is doing well so greedy landlord ups the rent. Joe Bloggs decides he can't carry on and make a living because he can't put hi prices up to compensate so terminates lease. Greedy landlord eventually finds he can't get any new lessee at high rent so drops it until someone takes it on. The circle then starts again.

 

It would be great to see the WSR link up to Taunton, but to be honest I think there are other things the railway could invest in that would benefit it more

1 More workshop space
2 A Carriage Shed
3 Museum for some of their rolling stock
4 Investment in the GWR coaches they have acquired but which need restoration
5 Perhaps a place to work on boilers etc

I think of the WSR as a superb line in the same league as railways like the Severn Valley, but to be honest the Severn Valley has made far more progress in all of the above. Look at how for example the North Norfolk Railway has transformed itself by investment in workshops etc at Weybourne.

 

The reason there is little appetite for the scheme is that the people who have looked at it detail realise just how difficult it would be technicly as well as in cost. Whilst cost is a major issue it is not the only one. If a regular year round service was to be run, and as
MCOC and others have advocated then huge changes would have to be made that would IMHO destroy the WSR as a heritage line. In no particular order the problems to be overcome include these. Nor is it an exhaustive list.

Increasing the line speed to 50mph would involve getting regulatory approval that would in itself require bringing the line up to the same standards as NR and in any case some parts of the line are still likely to be restricted to less . In any case because much of the line is single track, with little opportunity to double it, the end to end travel time will be limited by the need to pass and the inevitable delays that the token system involves. Do you really see doing away with the existing heritage signalling system would be acceptable to the WSR PLC apart from the huge cost?

The line is currently owned by SCC who have leased it to the WSR PLC for some seventy years. Unless the company and shareholders are willing to agree to the wholesale change then it just is not going to happen.

In order to allows regular servicess to Taunton Network railwould have to agree and incoporate considerable change to allow the trains to cross the four running lines on a day to day basis and some resignalling. That is also dependent on there being sufficient paths to allow it. It can be done but it would not be easy or cheap.

Despite all the WBIN comments nobody, AFAIK has come up with any verifyable likely demand for the service and how much the customers would have to pay. At avery simplistic level do you really think that the WSR PLC is going to be able to charge the existing fares when a prsumeably cheaper fare would be charged from Taunton to Minehead and back? In any case what sort of fare do you think people would be prepared to pay?

 

Well done, Sgt Wilson, I wondered who would spot that first!

Robin