A question for active volunteers.

In which case a lot of people must act strangely in your opinion. A significant number of volunteers do just this, especially on the Welsh narrow gauge. The NYMR have people who come for working holidays from all parts of the UK and, even, Europe. I can think of at least six KESR volunteers who regularly put in short and long breaks on the NYMR and NYMR people who go in the other direction. I know of one person who lives literally next door to a heritage railway but regularly volunteers on three other heritage railways, the furthest of which is over 250 miles away. It is not all about volunteering locally to keep the costs to a minimum.

 

The number of railways that are closer to me in travel time than the "commutable" railway I volunteer at is at least 7, potentially more depending on how you measure; and my travel distance (90-120 minutes) is not particularly high for my railway. I don't think the North Wales lines would manage without "working holiday" volunteers, or indeed would ever have got started.

 

I don't think "having a foot in the door" is an issue at most railways. Speaking from experience at the Swanage Railway we're always looking for more volunteers across all departments. The problem is if you put your foot in the door it may well get bitten off! (mixing metaphors somewhat...)

Again from SR experience, I'd say C+W is one area where volunteers with little experience can be most effective! Also, again from experience, if you're unable to commit to regular turns, or to know your availability in advance, C+W is great. Of course they need "core" teams but most projects will always have jobs on the go for casual volunteers giving as little or as much time as they can. Typically there's no training needed to get started, and very often no need for PTS exams etc as you're often working in a shed/away from operations. I started my volunteering with a period of years getting stuck in with a paintbrush at Swanage goods shed (C+W base), sometimes turning up "on spec" (though it's helpful to contact whoever is in charge at least a few days before so they can get any jobs ready). I'm sure the GWRS will continue for many many years but it sounds like it may not be your "local", so do make yourself known at your nearest heritage railway and I'm sure you'll be welcome.

 

Been at the Swanage for around 10 years now; now in three different capacities (plus various ad-hoc tasks). It's not local - 120 miles away, and I have to pass other railways (including the MHR) to get there. For those put off volunteering by reason of distance, it may not be as bad as you think. Make a long weekend of it once a month and it's not only a chance to volunteer, it's a holiday! Many railways have limited overnight accommodation (often free, even if a bit basic) but more realistically, ask around and you may find other local volunteers who are happy to put you up for the odd weekend, again either at cost (breakfast!) or very cheaply.
If for whatever reason SR wasn't an option, I think I'd investigate the EOR pretty closely. It's only an hour from me (so day trips much more feasible, though I started at SR on day visits) and am very impressed with what they've achieved in a short time.

 

The railway I volunteered at did close and I went to the nearest one that was of a similar ilk in this case narrow gauge to industrial standard gauge. However when I was on holiday in Wales chatting to a driver on the Bala Lake I learned he was a regular fireman on the Bluebell and this was his holiday. This strangeness is the reason why the FR and other railways take the time to build bunk houses or have camping coaches for staff. Personally I've had offers from other railways further afield but working for a living and domestic bliss means the current railway has my full commitment.

 

And if our railway had unity of ownership I think I’d give up in despair. Most of the locos the company has ever owned have ended up sold or broken, and the company owned wagons see less maintenance and restoration than the privately owned ones. That model clearly doesn’t work for everyone.

To answer the original question if the railway I’ve put almost 30 years of my life into magically disappeared, I don’t think I would have it in me to start again somewhere else. Fortunately I don’t think that’s going to happen.


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It is perfectly possible to run a railway with unity of ownership. The principal Welsh narrow gauge lines are so operated. In fact the situation you describe is one of dis-unification!

PH

 

And it's perfectly possible to run a railway without unity of ownership, at least of the rolling stock. You know that I agree with you that the WSR takes this a little too far though!

 

Provided no-one has a hissy fit and takes their ball back home.

Paul H

 

Deleted - Double post

 

I'd have to disagree with you on both points there. Most railways start out with little covered shed space. I started on the KWVR in 1970, and at that time we had plenty of locos but only a single road two loco shed. So most of the Barry restorations were carried out in the open, and without these the line wouldn't have grown the way it did. You have to go through the hardship to enjoy the cushier times ahead.

Also, the idea of putting in a week at a different railway was big back then - IIRC we had a reciprocal arrangement with the SRPS who would invade each summer to create havoc on our civil week (Bringing this up-to-date, I'd fancy a summer's week on, say, the WHR).

45 years on, I now work on the CVR's pway gang, out in all weathers enjoying the banter amid the beauty of the Staffordshire Moorlands, well worth the the 2hr trip each way from N Warks. When I retired I scouted around the more local lines, but a certain centrally located outfit declared they had enough vols in their MPD, and an even closer line didn't sell itself based on the topography and loco stud.

So where would I go if not the CVR? Not an easy one. It would need ideally need to be another a scenic, steeply graded line with interesting motive power. Also I probably prefer pioneering to routine operation. Distance isn't a major problem for one day a week, and Peak Rail would be an obvious choice, had it fulfilled its original game plan, but 'been there, bailed out' so I really don't know. Probably the Ecclesbourne as that has the potential to fulfill most of my criteria.

 

Maybe but pretty well every standard gauge railway operates quite successfully with an extensive range of ownerships whilst appearing seamless from the outside. There are a number of reasons for this, some historical, some to take advantage of charitable funding, some because there is a hire market in SG steam locos and some because quite reasonably folk like to identify with their own part of a wider whole.

There is nothing wrong with that and it is in many ways a strength. Its much better than folk leaving to yet start another railway nearby. I know in my own case that I go the extra mile (or three) to further the locomotive projects I am (with others) closely involved in. I find that those who have only a general affiliation and interest in their chosen railway as a large entity are still keen but less motivated to do anything other than simply run trains.

 

We shall just have to disagree then. There is no evidence whatsoever to suggest that those associated with unified setups are any less motivated. Locomotives are not the only thing involved in running one of these operations.

PH

 

Disagreement agreed upon! - my comment was really wider than locos to include all types of rolling stock.

 

Not the case with rolling stock either.

PH

 

I think unless the railway is very large with huge resources big enough that it can employ staff and pay for all materials it is best if locos and rolling stock are not owned by the railway. My own railway the SCR has owned a number of locos/coaches/wagons and they have only rarely been looked after whereas privately owned stuff has faired much better. The railway for example owned the loco GWR 3845 and not a thing was done to it eventually being sold, same with some coaches and wagons, some of which have ended up being scrapped.

The problem is that nobody takes responsibility and nobody driving that project at all. Whereas when something is private owned, the private owners will push things forward and use their own labour. money, materials etc with others then helping also. Obviously if a railway is large enough it can direct its paid staff and say you must work on xyz but with volunteers you cant do that. If they are not interested in working on a project they don't do so.

Say for example a wagon is owned by the railway, the railway will probably direct it's money at things deemed more import and a wagon will be considered of no value.

It is the same analogy with a council house, that is why Maggie sold them off. When it is just a tenant, the tenant doesn't do a thing to maintain the house, because it isn't theirs, yet the minute that person is able to buy it, it might be the very same person but they now start to put their own money, time and effort into improving it and take responsibility. The ownership is a powerful factor

When I worked at the GWR C & W, I worked on a mark 1 for about 3 months. Then one break time I was introduced to the 'owner' of it, a well known wheeler dealer type who could have easily just said thanks very much and sold it on. It really gave me the motivation to think, If I am going to be putting in regular efforts, then I need to start my own project (which I did shortly after)

 

Sorry but none of this follows. It only "proves" that a railway should own all of its equipment or none of it. My view is that it should own all of it or aim to. Umpteen individuals each doing their own thing is no way to be going on.


PH

 

And what proportion of the many existing heritage railways actually fit your black and white criteria?

I think you'll find the "umpteen individuals" will have agreements with the railway as to how their assets are to be stored, managed, used and paid for, rather than doing their own thing. If they don't like this agreement, they can always move to another railway.

 

Leaving those who have spent their own time and, presumably, some money in looking after somebody elses items feeling a bit peeved no doubt.

PH

 

This one won't be solved. It seems that there is PH's view & the rest of the worlds view.