Current and Proposed New-Builds

These like the later Mk3s, Mk4s are the designations given the the British Railways designed carriages that started to be introduced in the early 1950s. The first [Mk1s] coming out in 1951, they like the standard design Locos were based on a synthesis of the pre nationalised design stock. On formation in 1948 the new British Railways continued to build both locomotives and rolling stock to the Big 4 [L.N.E.R., SOUTHERN. L.M.S. and G.W.R] designs up until 1950 By which time they'd drawn up the collective designs for both the locos [after the exchange trails in 1948] and stock, granted most of the freight stock didn't change that much. The new stock coming into service in 1951 with for the locos' 70000 Britannia.

 

Narrow Gauge railways are in a slightly different boat - almost all rolling stock has to be new build as there is not exactly a ready supply of second hand rolling stock. When there was it was snapped up and used, ironies of ironies, in the 1980s travelling in the Zillertal stock behind an ex-Antiguan loco was not ‘heritage’ and of course now it is.

The building of new stock was and always has been on ‘modern lines’ ie the FRs barns, tin coaches, now the super saloons as the bread and butter rolling stock. Built to meet the needs of a travelling public, the need for corridor coaches, the need for toilets, the need for buffet cars, the need for observation cars. All designed to make riding on the railway as attractive as possible for anyone, none of it prototypical

The new heritage rolling stock has always been a nice add on, the restored non-corridor stock restored and run hard out of necessity rather than a choice. Some old stock such as 11,12 and 14 we’re old coaches turned into other things and are as much part of a different ‘heritage’.

Here is one of the ironic things - whether we like it or not a significant group who attend railways are for want of a better word in their ‘golden years’, and that means that railways need to cater for their needs which means improved access, toilets, etc etc. Non-corridor stock is not ideal, restoring a coach to make it accessible means compromising its integrity as a historical artifact. Just because you are running a nineteenth century technology on your railway doesn’t mean you should take a nineteenth century approach to inclusion. If a railway wants to be successful then it needs to appeal to as broader church as possible from the people who want to see ‘thomas’ or ‘a train’ to those who want to relive an approximation of 1900.

 

and don't forget the Mid-Norfolk Railway http://mnr.org.uk/aboutus, which is the other end of the same Wells Branch and runs Wymondham to Dereham (11 Miles) and is fast appraoching North Elmham, which will give them another 4-5 miles to play with (they also have a base at County School another mile closer to Walsingham from North Elmham), whilst they major on diesels there is always a steam service in summer and interesting locos for the galas. Also in Norfolk is Whitwell and Reepham station. So it quite a good county for a steam flavoured weekend away, or two

 

Thank you sir!
It doesn`t tell anything about the standard or "comfort" of the coaches? Norway had coaches classified like "1. klasse" (klasse= class) 2. klasse and 3 klasse" .

 

Mk1 , Mk2, etc are from different periods with different kinds of construction.

We too had first, second and third class at one time, but second class disappeared, so then we had just first and third. We still have two classes but now they are called "first" and "standard".

 

The subject of this thread is "Current and Proposed New-Builds". These could be for operation on main lines, heritage lines or short demonstration lines.

One of the considerations applying to any suggested new build is whether it would be more appropriate for heritage lines than their presently available rolling stock, but there are several other considerations.

 

Quite correct each of the Mks' are were nominally an improvement in the design in light of experience etc .

 

Mark 1, Mark 2 etc refer to different generations of carriage design, becoming progressively more modern (though not necessarily more comfortable!)

Within those broad design series, there were functionally different types (brake vehicles, saloons, restaurant cars etc) and two classes for passengers - 1st and 2nd - First class being more luxurious.

Loosely speaking, Mark 1s were introduced in the early 1950s and were in widespread use on loco-hauled trains until about the 1990s; thus they are appropriate for recreations of steam or diesel hauled trains from that period. The Mark 2s were introduced in the mid 1960s and were only occasionally steam hauled, right at the end of mainline steam. Mark 3s and later were only hauled by diesel or electric locos.

There are also DMUs and EMUs that had a familial association with Mark 1, Mark 2 etc body design.

Pre-nationalisation (and even pre-grouping) carriages weren’t swept away the moment the prototype Mark 1 entered service of course, with a few pre-grouping (pre-1923) carriages lasting right to the end of steam in one or two locations, and more modern grouping-era (1923 - 1947) carriages lasting into the 1970s in revenue service. There was also overlap of construction of grouping-era carriages by BR: for example, some of the Bluebell Railway Bulleid carriages date from 1950-51 (and are visually distinct from the 1946-47 versions).

Tom

 

Thanks a lot for your information Tom!

 

Thanks!
The second class coaches also disappeared in our country too.
Some considerate for fun that travelling i a goods wagon in a freight trains was 4. class !

 

You certainly opened an interesting and informative can of worms there Knut by asking what do Mk1 Mk2 stood for. I was giving the basic idea/concept behind the carriages. I've learned something too looking at the answers given by others.

 

Would the easiest way to put what MK1, MK2 are say it's like a ford fiesta.

There is a Mk (mark) 1 fiesta. Loads of different trims and styles to suit the price the passenger pays etc.

Then the MK2 was an updated and more modern version built later on just like a MK2 fiesta and again there is different trims etc.

If you go onto Google images and search BAR MK1 coach you'll see the general look of a Mk1 and then you'll see the difference in shape between mk1s and 2s. The 2s are not as heritage in their looks.

 

There were also variations in the mark 2s, the 2 and 2a and b had sliding vents in the windows, the later ones were air conditioned and had fixed windows. The early ones were just about heritage-ish. They were steam hauled occasionally at the very end of the steam period on BR, and a few were briefly maroon and, on the Southern, green. To me they looked wrong in these colours and suited blue/grey much better, also, the later, 1990s regional railways livery looked ok too.

The air cons aren’t really heritage looking and can, at a glance be confused with a mark 3

 

I seem to recall reading a carriage blog (mhr maybe) which was pointing out the differences in mk1s depending on when they were built and who built them, apparently a standard tso can vary.

 

Or the V4! Personally though I'd like them to succeed, I think it's one too many P2s.

 

To mee it seems that Doncaster`s Cock o the North project are more related to get pride of the former industry plant in Doncaster , rather than than the P2 company which intend to build and operate Britains most powerful steam locomotive.
I wish them both to success, and I think they will! Donate, donate!

kind regards
Knut

 

I see we're back to the old 'Highest Nominal Tractive Effort = Most Powerful Locomotive' myth again.

 

I just refer to their main web site...

 

Duchess of Abercorn.

 

Definitely, the was nothing standard between Swindon, Met -Camm, Wolverton Derby and BRCW, apart from light fittings and underframes. All those mentioned 'varied' in construction, mainly in their interpretation of body shell radii, Years ago I bought up quite a few Mk1 spares (external and internal doors, windows, panelling, seats etc), and found lots of work making things fit!