West Somerset Railway General Discussion

A few billion pages back we already did to death the fact that a small prairie isn't big enough so what available locos do you suggest Paul that are historically accurate and suitable for a 2o mile quite steeply graded line that a few years ago identified the requirement for Class 4 motive power to be able to reliably handle it's current service.

The point was also made in that report that if visitor numbers were to be increased this requirement would become class 5 for the main part of the season unless extra train paths could be found.

 

Judging by recent visiting locomotives on the DSR suggests some owners have every confidence in their locomotives. Recent years have seen L94/7752 0-6-0PT, 7820 Dinmore Manor, 5542 ex GWR 2-6-2T and presently USATC 5197.

 

Some of these points are perfectly valid others, forgive me , are a bit overblown. They all add up to the need to ensure that the illusion of the past is not compromised by un-necessary sloppiness.

Let me just cite an example away from railways. Some years ago, a country house marketed itself as a visitor attraction. Amongst the things on offer were horse and cart rides where the horseman was an individual dressed as a "yokel" with straw hat, smock and trousers tied up at the knees with string. Okay, but the cart had pneumatic tyres. Pop! went the illusion.

PH

 

The WSR has a large prairie, 4110, it bought which presumably is considered appropriate. The other large prairie, 4160, sadly seems lost to the line due to hostilities with the WSRA; that worked well for the line over a good many years, There is also Ditcheat Manor waiting in the wings for restoration.

 

Apart from the fact you run over double the mileage (which is your choice) is your line any more difficult than the DSR? As to the availability of motive power, you have had several decades to sort this out.

PH

 

I agree it does survive - at least financially - on being a visitor attraction. I don't think anyone is disagreeing with that.

How much did goods carry last year? And the year before that? I'm sure you can tell us to the nearest ton...

And no doubt you can tell us how much it will carry in 2018...

As for being realistic - would you suggest running no steam services rather than running an "express" loco?

Your last suggestion is, perhaps, 100% WIBN on your part, Paul. Things move on, y'know. You might think it is OK, but we on the WSR do not like turning people away through lack of carriages on the train due to an underpowered (but historically correct) loco.

Steve

 

The main thing I was driving at Paul was that it's pretty much all a balancing act ..... always was, always will be.

In the case of smaller locos, I've previsouly mentioned a D1 as an appropriate loco for the Bluebell. Our Tom, who's in a good position to speak with authority on matters Bluebell, points out that whilst that much may be true, so is the fact that the gradients would preclude it operating a commercially viable load. I guess we just have to accept that, sad though it may be, sometimes it's not merely a given class which is extinct, but so is the sort of work it was best suited to.

When it comes to something as ephemeral as nameplates, or livery for that matter - the red 8F being a case in point .... historically inaccurate? Sure, but it looked pretty damned fine for all that. Sorry folks, but I really can't get too worked up about it. Ditto an owner opting to bung some nameplates on his prize loco. Railways frequently run locos in the guise of scrapped classmates and there logically has to be a case for saying that practice is rather less acceptable, given it could be seen as a deliberate deception. So long as the historic record keeping is verifiably accurate for future generations, what's the issue? It's not as if none of us have enough in our lives to drive blood pressure skywards without finding more problems!

 

No Paul, it shows the arbitariness of historical recreation. The examples were deliberately extreme to show that at multiple points on your heritage train ride you will be confronted with historical inaccuracies.

You draw a line in the sand and say ‘this matters, this does not because I say so’. Weald and Down for example do medieval feasts with historically accurate menus, cooked in a medieval kitchen, however, the person turning the spit isn’t a serf. Weald and Down does not recreate serfdom, arbitrary violence for visitors nor does it give them the Black Death either.

You can not recreate the past without compromises, to try to do so is quixotic. Point is - enough is never going to be enough for a heritage fundamentalist, who will always find a ‘historical inaccuracy’ to complain about.

 

Agreed that 7821 and 4110 will be useful and good to have in action.

Unless I've missed something though I don't think the restoration of 7027 will impact in any way on 4110's return to steam and my guess is that Ditcheat will be next through Williton after the Castle which gives six years to raise the funds to do it.

What's the load limits? 8 for a large prairie and nine for the manor I think. The Castle is therefore likely to be more use on incoming charters along with the Hall and 88, which won't always be available. I don't imagine it will accumulate the mileage in general service of the "workhorses".

It almost certainly looks more impressive on the front of a tourist brochure to a potential casual visitor as well.

 

So why did you mention "goods" if the answer is, as I suspected it would be, zero? Do you run demonstration goods trains now, by the way? Quite a lot of places do and it would be a bit of an antidote to the big chufferitis which seems to have taken a hold. You have had decades to get your locomotive situation sorted.

PH

 

I've never been to the DSR, but observation suggests that they are running at much lower line speeds to get up the steep bits. It's already been done to death on here that the journey time is already bordering on the too long.

It's not my line to sort out but I note that you don't actually have any suggestions yourself, not even of locos that would be suitable that someone should have had the funds to have secured back in the 1980s when the WSR was oh so wealthy.

Sensible provision for the future was made very early on in the line's history by acquiring three small prairies. That was undoubtedly the right decision at the time - no one had a crystal ball at that point to foresee that they wouldn't really be big enough for what the line has evolved into. And by your standards, even one of those is a big engine compared to a Terrier.

 

Indeed & perhaps to PH's horror, this includes Ivatt tanks on the IOW!!! - big chufferitis island style??

 

Not zero. By many a long ton. Yes, demo goods trains are run on the WSR. Where have you been, Paul?

Given the WSR cannot run on a diet of locos that are typical of the old days, I think the loco situation has been generally "sorted" over the last 30 years, within the limits of budget and resources. The Castle thing is extra. I'm not against it but I do worry it will restrict resources for other loco projects.

Steve

 

New WSR plc Director Appointed.

I appreciate that it is probably only we lawyers who rush to Companies House for the latest news.

But I see that 'William James Knell' is now registered at Companies House as having become a WSR plc Director on 30.1.18.

May I be the first to offer congrats, Bill. Presumably I missed the announcement on a website somewhere?

Robin

 

Actually Howard, although I think painting the "wrong" number is rather silly, it does earn money and is easily reversed. Livery does not bother me either for that is reversible also.

However, I don't buy the argument relating to the D1 for one moment! No matter which railway it were to run on, it would be too small if the operators persisted in hanging heavy Mk.1s or even heavier Pullmans behind. With a train of light four wheelers or bogies (there are increasing numbers of these around now), there would be no more difficulty in hauling a paying load than there was in the eighteen eighties. Clearly, something a little larger would be a tad more versatile but I fear that "little larger" would be big chufferised into a 4-6-4T which would be plain daft,

Paul H

 

At least we can agree this!

PH

 

This was laid out ( ie the difference between the DSR and the WSR wrt gradients, length thereof and whether you can 'charge' said gradients) in posting 2328 (17/11/2016). This was in reply to a query from you. Perhaps you might re-read

Michael Rowe

 

Given that the WSR has two return runs with a three car dmu throughout the summer why is running a small loco with three carriages a no-no?

 

I'd suggest that if you put a steam loco on the front then suddenly 3 carriages might not be enough! But it does indicate that there are services on the WSR that could be handled by smaller engines all year round, but that doesn't negate the need for bigger locos for heavier trains on busier diagrams.

 

Plus, the DMU is cheaper to run, and much quicker to prepare at the start of the day and dispose at the end.