Lynton and Barnstaple - Operations and Development

Well if such large scale work has to be done in such close proximity to their land, then in which case I can understand their objections, though odd that they bang on about the 'disneyfication' and polluting the air and all this other over dramatic dialogue, and not the actual problems they have with it. I'm sure many would have more sympathy for their opposition otherwise.

I do wonder though with all this considered, how does one appease such vocal and steadfast objectors, certainly if their land is crucial for the project. Paying them a hefty sum of compensation perhaps? Avoid encroaching their land altogether?

No doubt one of many things that'll have to be considered going forward.

 

Of course you do. You burst into tears and put me on ignore because you can't handle it when people call you on your attention seeking nonsense.

You did your usual dog barking at its own fart routine by complaining about a linear scrapyard, which was a nice bit of trolling to get some attention and some responses.

Hate to break it to you but no one in this thread has said that the engineering works needed to be done are going to be easy and no one has made any such claims. You are assigning claims to people (who?) not because you want a serious discussion about the difficulties that lie ahead, or because you want a serious discussion about how to manage the expansion of the L & B without stretching the railway financially or in the engineering sense too far (ie too far too fast) but because you want some attention.

There are serious questions to ask and to consider but you aren't asking them.

 

This is merely repeating the previous vulgarities virtually word for word. Back to "ignore"

 

There is no need to appease objectors. All you have to do is:
1. Respect their position and speak of them with courtesy.
2. Answer their objections, politely, and refute any inaccuracies.
3. Continue to make sensible offers to buy the land, plus reasonable compensation for any other disruption or loss which the landowners may face.
4. Proceed with the TWAO application, including compulsory purchase powers, for use if your sensible offers are not accepted.

This approach does not guarantee success, but is likely to be more successful than unnecessary mud slinging and ridicule. If objectors behave in that way it will reflect as badly on them as it would on you.

 

Dry your eyes Paul. If you give it out then you can’t complain when it comes back at you.

@Miff - I think that this is the kind of scenario where preserved railways often fall down, you need to be spot on with all the legal documents, you need to be very good at dealing with difficult people at an individual level or working through lawyers, and you need to maintain a positive relationship with the local media and authorities.

 

Hello Paul,

The L&BR is currently the same length near enough as the IOWSR was for nearly 20 years from Havenstreet to Wootton.

I do not understand your negativity towards the L&BR extension plans. The current planning approval is a modest extension in line with what the IOWSR did in 1991, and with removal of workshop and undercover storage of locos and stock to a position that creates little impact on the locality - unlike the considerable impact the development at Havenstreet has had on what was once a quiet rural passing place with one siding.

At the moment the focus must be on raising funds for an exciting project. Your negative comments are misplaced. I read all of your posts with great interest usually, but in this case I would hazard to suggest you are off the mark. The L&BR has built a new build loco of one of the original locos, and has done the same as the IOWSR has done in recreating original carriage stock.

My Grandma used the L&BR in the early 1930s and met my Grandpa at Porlock in 1934. I will be sending a cheque off to the L&BR next week unless someone tells me 'gift aid' or whatever will be a better way.

This exciting project should receive the utmost of support from all of us on Nat Pres!

Cheers,

Julian

 

Freedom of speech must always be balanced against the capacity of that speech to do harm and, whether it is Ms Grob threatening the members of ENPA or so-called L&B supporters threatening Ms Grob, it crosses a line. At the very least the idiots on Facebook who are doing this are stooping to the bad guy's level; at most they are threatening the project.

 

Agreed. When objectors behave like spoiled brats, it is all the more important to keep one's dignity and not go down to their level. Benefit to the local community is the name of the game; look at North Wales. And don't underestimate the ability of judges to second guess a democratic decision, in favour of landowners. Britain is still very much a feudal state!

John

 

Much was made, during the planning meeting, about "The house where Lorna Doone was written" and this was taken up and run with by the media.
it seems, once again, that truth is more mundane Than Fiction- R D Blackmore actually wrote the book in Teddington, where he had lived for Some 7 years previous.
so just one more falsity....

 

On the other hand I’m glad it is not too easy for the government; the council; the L&B or anybody else to take away somebody else’s property. You have to make a very good case that it is in the public interest; follow the planning process correctly and patiently; and deal fairly and respectfully with those who may not be pleased to see you coming.

 

One mild correction. I am not so much "negative" about the L&B as "unenthusiastic" about it. Surprising really as I was actively involved with narrow gauge preservation for very many years. Blackmoor to Woody Bay would be about the right length but no more! Operating through or adjoining land with special statutory protection creates its own issues and rightly so. The I.O.W.S.R even owns a small S.S.S.I. which requires and receives special management measures.

Lastly "enthusiasts" need to realise not everybody loves trains in the same way that not everyone loves dogs or Association Football.

Paul H

 

Abso-friggin-lutely. Imagine for a moment your own house stood in the way of -say- an access road to a proposed municipal dump. Would you (or your neighbours) prefer to have the protection of planning processes? If the answer is "yes" for yourself and "no" for your neighbours ..... you could probably do worse than review your relationship with the rest of the universe.

I'm half wondering whether the planning conditions re: the Parracombe bungalow are tied up with the funding conditions imposed on those applications which were passed. It actually seems fairly logical that the owner not loose his property before any certainty the project L&B is sufficiently well funded to ensure someone's home isn't totalled, only to find the project to which it was sacrificed has gone down the pan. In fact, the whole thrust of the approvals is to ensure the project succeeds at minimum risk to it's environment, which I'd suggest, is absolutely reasonable anywhere, the moreso in a National Park.

The upsides are (a) CP powers at the TWO stage and (b) in the scheme of things, assuming the L&B project goes as we here hope it does, one bungalow isn't actually that formidable a physical barrier to progress.

 

didnt you say that (once again) just a couple of posts ago?
Or am I hearing a rather monotonous echo?
Paul, we really aren't that insular or stupid, ok?

 

Stupid? No. Insular? Yes.

PH

 

I do have some sympathy for them, but I have met people that are eerily similar to them, especially being that I live in one of those 'attractive chocolate box' sort of areas (Peak District) so we get a lot of city types moving here attracted to that sort of egotistical escape to the country guff with a great wad of cash and then not really gelling with the local populace but having plenty to say whenever a planning application comes to the fore, but then also being totally bemused when people have a problem with their 'tasteful' home improvement ambitions, maybe it's just what I want to think, but the objectors in this case seem to give off that same metropolitan luvvie sort of vibe, wanting to find their own twee corner of the world but bringing the big city personality with them, If the railway does get built they'll probably sell up and parachute into another humble little village, or the railway may find that they weren't actually that bothered about the plans and you will hear no more from them, i've witnessed that before, people putting up a big stink about something for the sake of it and then being fine with it after the fact. Or thirdly and regrettably, they may harass the railway operations when it's up and running, there was a case of a walking trail around here reopening after being closed for some years across someone's land due to a degraded surface, when it did reopen and with the land having a new owner who wasn't having it, they decided to put subtle barricades like branches and sometimes barbed wire across the path to deter people, and telling people they were 'trespassing' etc.

Anyway, I've always thought this thread was interesting in regards to planning jurisprudence, it has given a valuable insight into how it all works. all this talk of nimbyists, and planning reminds me of our beloved governments latest musings, it seems that any opposition to the lovely bradstone and plastic housing estates across the land is just waffle and the planning laws will be changed to shoot them down, which would be fine if it was the government building the houses, rather than their friends over at Barratts, red row, persimmon etc who will clearly make lots of money over this slashing of red tape. I imagine a lot of previously protected ex railway land and rail corridors may suffer from this, food for thought, regardless, I've appreciated this thread from beginning to end and those who have contributed, the end of the beginning, roll on the l&b!

 

Hi,i have long been a member of the L&B but owing to work commitments a mainly silent one,i fully support what they are trying to do and hope to one day ride all the way from Barnstaple to Lynton on it. Understandably there has been very little written by the L&B about this Ms Grob,indeed I had not heard about this potential problem until the planning meeting this week, am I right in thinking she owns Lorna Doone farm? If so that is quite a long stretch and there is no way the railway can proceed past Parracombe without it.How long have her family owned it,they would have been well aware of the railway line when they bought it ,and the possibility that it would be rebuilt one day. Hopefully all this new publicity will generate more support and financial backing to this fantastic project that has the potential to be the number one tourist attraction in devon.

 

Many places, either coast or country, which are some distance from larger cities and conurbations suffer from a few incomer/new arrival issues. Much stems from a wish by just a few to change the place to resemble, to a small degree, where they came from. I remember someone from the north moaning about the lack of regular bus services to which I replied that they should have stayed where they were if bus travel was so important to them. Others finding a small town with busy harbour (which attracts the tourists and helps keep the town going) a des res then have issues parking and so have suggested, on more than one occasion, that the harbour be filled to create extra car parking spaces! Others find their new home is close to a church and find the bells a nuisance (I often wonder how they missed seeing the church as it sticks out amongst the houses )
I am sure many here have similar experiences.
As far as the L&B are concerned there can be no doubt that the National Park authority are fully aware of what is at stake and will most certainly keep their eyes on the ball! Our national parks are intended for leisure and enjoyment and whilst certain developments are not acceptable the place is not a time warp.
One facet that seems to be overlooked is that this is not a 'new' railway but re-instatement of a former one. The railway is historically part of the scenery so to speak.

 

welcome Kevin! Most of the answers to those questions are in the past 60 pages, I believe the doone stories are based around malmsmead? From my recollections, the grobs live at court place farm, parracombe, which I can say, because it's in the public domain.

 

Does anyone know how long a potential complainant has to go to High Court to complain about possible irregularities of procedure (as noted earlier in the thread) after PP has been decided?