Drift from the British India Line thread.

In the interest of absolute accuracy , the visit of 35012 to the north-west was on 13th June 1964. Twas the 'Solway Ranger', that also featured two of the Scottish veterans which took the train from Carlisle to Silloth. 35012 was serviced at 12A prior to returning the tour south via the S&C. "Not a lot of people know that!"

 

See Bert Hooker's Legendary Railwayman for a description of that run over the S and C. 83m 10s from Carlisle to Settle Jct. Signal stop at Settle Jct and nearly ran out of water.

 

Nearly ran out of water? I understood that the injector knocked off just after Settle station because the tender was dry, but the boiler water level was sufficient to get them to Hellifield. The story goes that on the approach to Garsdale the LM conductor driver said to Bert Hooker that this is where they you get ready to lower the scoop, only to be told that Southern engines don't have them. They decided to press on to Hellifield anyway.

Peter

 

Many years ago I went to a talk by Bert Hooker on his footplate days and he related that story and the one during the loco exchanges when, going north, they were told there would be a banker available for Shap if they needed it. When they were speeding through Penrith Alec Swain, the driver turned to the pilotman and said'where's this Shap Bank then?' or words to that effect.

 

Wasn't that when 35012 went through Tebay at 82 mph and over Shap at over 50?

 

Over Grayrigg at 52 then Tebay at 82 then signal stop at Shap Wells and then there was a 20 pws at Shap Summit. 33 04 start to top for the 30.2 miles from Carnforth to Shap Wells. Winkworth table 84.

 

And some people slag off Bulleids....

 

Only the terminally ill informed.

 

I still wonder on how our northern brethren would have would have reacted if upon rebuilding the entire 30 strong class had been reallocated op north ?

 

Ditto our southern cousins if the planned tranfer of some big lizzies had not been scuppered by gauging around Bournemouth?

 

Distain probably, still no match for an A4!!!

 

In a book (by Paul Beevor?), the author argues that after nationalisation, the authorities should have looked at the loco fleet as a national rather than regional asset. MNs working say Liverpool - Glasgow, WC + BB on the Leeds - Carlisle route with Black 5s + V2s sent South of the Thames. There would then have been no need to build any of the BR Standards.

 

What would have been the point in switching all those locos around and giving them to crews who at best would have been unfamiliar with them and at worst downright resentful?

 

Gauging may have made that more awkward in practice than it sounds on paper. For example, while a West Country could easily have run Paddington to Bristol, a Castle might well have struggled from Victoria to Dover.

I suspect that the optimum course for building new steam locos in the 1950s that would even then be known to have fairly limited planned lives would simply been to have continued with regional designs - for which each region had design expertise and each shed was used to maintaining and with spares in stock.

Pace @Jimc



Source: https://www.xkcd.com/927/

Tom

 

Sorry this isn't the right thread, but Tom's (@Jamessquared ) post on gauging jogged my memory and (hopefully!) it's a straightforward enough question .....

I came across a photo of the GWR Royal Train from 1899, complete with fully decked out Dean 4-4-0. The caption mentioned the train worked through to (I think) Folkestone (rather than the traditional embarkation point of Portsmouth) for the short sea crossing on her last journey to Nice.

Query: Does anyone please know whether the Dean loco worked the train throughout (as the caption seemed to imply)? I ask in light of the several gauging concerns expressed when Dukedog 9017 traversed Southern metals on it's way to safety at the Bluebell back in 1962.

 

That cartoon reminded of a meeting held during the development of TSR2. The chairman couldn’t believe how many delegates had turned up. He told the firms/departments involved they should only bring essential staff to the next one. Needless to say even more delegates turned up at the next meeting.

 

Well, funny you should mention that, because there is an article about that very train (on March 11 1899) in the latest issue of "Invicta", the SE&CR Society journal. The GWR loco did indeed work throughout to Folkestone. In fact, I was tempted to put a picture up of a GWR loco passing Westenhanger in the picture quiz. The loco incidentally was 3297 "Earl Cawdor", which was modified to have an additional water tank on the back of the tender to give it the range to run from Windsor to Folkestone non stop, a distance of 99 miles. It was proceeded at 10 minutes by an SECR pilot locomotive running light, which looks to have been a Stirling B class.

Incidentally, it is interesting - at that early date - that the special working notice still refers to an "SER" engine as pilot (not "SE&CR") and the document heading still uses the formulation "South Eastern and Chatham & Dover Railways", which fell out of use quite quickly.

The route was Windsor - Slough - Ealing - Acton - West London Junction - Kensington, Addison Road - West Brompton - Chelsea - Battersea - Longhedge Junction - Factory Junction - Clapham - Brixton - Denmark Hill - Nunhead Junction - Catford - Shortlands Junction - Bromley - Bickley - Petts Wood - Swanley - Otford - Malling - Maidstone - Hollingbourne - Ashford - Westenhanger - Sandling Junction - Folkestone Central - Folkestone Junction - Folkestone Pier. Essentially an LCDR route to Ashford, then picking up the SER to Folkestone.

Tom

 

i don't know what issues an inside cylinder loco would have, maybe the outside cranks were an issue? Earl Cawdor would have had bigger wheels (I imagine) than 9017 and thus the cranks would be higher up so maybe that's the difference?

 

Well with a political approach to a nationalised railway and little regard for railway knowledge, anything could have been on the table. God, we even ended up with Beeching!