West Somerset Railway General Discussion

This is England. If anyone complains you can be damn sure that scores have noticed, been unhappy but have not said anything, just decided not to come back.

 

Is there any evidence to support that? Is there a large section of the travelling public that is refusing to travel owing to the lack of jointed rail? I've done a fair few questionnaires in my time about why I was travelling, I have to say, I don't recall ever being asked if I had a preference for jointed over welded.

It is a good job though that it only applies to England and that it doesn't affect Wales, Scotland, Northern Ireland or the rest of the world.

 

That’s really funny Surely someone would have had a rant on Tripadvisor? “My wife Shirley and I were so upset and we’ll never return because there was no clickety-clack.”

 

I am depressed by some of the comments on here. Worrying about the loss of the 'clickety clack' is the least of the railway's worries.

Look around you. What does the railway offer that distinguishes it from any other visitor attraction? What is our 'USP'? How are we growing, evolving, innovating to keep us relevant as we approach the third decade of the 21st century?

What is there to attract new customers to the line? What is there for kids and families to do, apart from a model railway at BL and the same old tired worksheet to colour in aboard the trains? Playground? No chance. Interactive museum? Nope. Child-friendly restaurant? Nothing. Not even just a carriage / stock shed to look at vehicles in the restoration queue with some explanation boards.

How about the 'high end' product then? Food? Basic 'bog standard' catering at BL and MD cafes. Nothing special and too small. Local or home-grown quality food? Forget it. QB? So so, but is it really economically viable and worth all the hassle to haul about 4 carriages with a dedicated steam locomotive, of which just 1.5 of those carriages can carry fare paying customers?

Now what about the heritage - the whole reason for our existence and central to our 'core product'? Well the Gauge Museum at BL, all credit to them, is just about the only 'shop window' for that. But then look at Dunster - what a mess, what a lost opportunity. And Minehead - lovely station building - virtually none of it in public use (save for the shop and toilets). Again virtually nothing to do at Minehead to keep you on the station and spending money on the WSR other than browsing the Readers' Halt and buying a bland cup of tea from the bland cafe.

Bland bland bland.

No wonder the railway's finances are taking a dive. If this railway isn't careful it will go the way of those 'immortal' high street brands such as BHS, Toys R' Us and Woolworths, who thought they could just carry on doing what they had always done.

So time for the Directors to wake up and take the initiative before it is too late. For the sake of all the hardworking staff and volunteers whose labours may soon be in vain.

 

A special feature in the daily mail with a ‘sad photo’

One for angry people in local newspapers https://www.facebook.com/angrypeopleinlocalnewspapers/

 

Yes, there is a lot of evidence to support the observation that the English do not like to complain to anyone who can do anything about something, but prefer instead to grumble to their friends and vote with their feet. I am not trying to suggest that this trait is limited to the customers of preserved railways, let alone a preference for jointed rail over welded.

If I said the English were human beings, would you then conclude that the rest of the world's inhabitants somehow weren't?

 

Evidence required

The majesty of ‘national characteristics’ beloved of nationalists and eugenists.

You talk about ‘the english’ as if this is a homogenous group of people who all behave in the same way and their behaviour is markedly different to other communities, as if people who live in wales or Scotland complain a lot. Or were you using English as a shorthand for British?

I’d point out that local newspapers, the tabloids etc are nothing but a litany of complaints, quixotically raging against things. There is every bit a complaining culture in England and the rest of the UK as there is anywhere else in the world.

However, whatever, you may think about the argument about social norms of behaviour and their existence or construction, your argument that people are not complaining about jointed rail and not coming back is thus far without evidence beyond ‘what I think’ which is not evidence.

 

When the SVR fitted a substantial stretch of welded track on Eardington Bank there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth; but passenger numbers and ticket sales were substantially higher over the subsequent twelve months compared to the previous year - the former up by about 6,500. The following year, they fell. I suspect the conclusion to draw is that the average passenger does not care either way!

 

Comment overheard yesterday in a packed carriage on the way to Broadway "Isn't it nice to have such a smooth ride" due no doubt to the welded track. There was also a comment about the less comfortable and noisier ride on a different heritage railway and we've all heard about issues of spilt tea and broken springs.

To my mind the biggest difficulty faced by heritage railways is in being hung up on preserving all aspects of the past (poor quality catering, dirty carriages, smelly toilets, rude jobsworth staff etc.) and not engaging with a new audience with significantly higher expectations than people had in the 1950's. Realistically it is not only the age profile of volunteers that needs to be tackled but also that of visitors. If the movement is to have a long term future it is the expectations of these younger generations which need to be met. Some lines seem to manage it but unfortunately others don't and may actually reduce overall public demand for the product as a poor experience at one line may mean the customer is forever put off from visiting others.

 

Right, I suspect it is low down the list of priorities. Is it clean, is it comfy, is it steam, are their toilets, cost, is there food and things to do and so on. Maybe the hardcore enthusiast may care, and they maybe the repeat visitor so you may lose some customers, the question is whether their loss is offset by the savings made in using cwr. I suspect that the savings are more than the loss of revenue. I do tend to think that if it matters that much to people then they ought to give time or money to ensure that the jointed rail is maintained.

 

For what it's worth, I have been put off visiting the WSR ever since I turned up at BL one morning in time for the first train to find that the parking was already full. We went and found something else to do in the area instead.

 

Come on Bayard have you or anyone you know stopped going because of a lack of clickety-clack? There are many reasons why customers might be put off making a return visit but this surely* isn't one of them.

*I am serious, and I don't reckon you're called Shirley.

 

I wondered about this. Has anyone tried it? Will it make the necessary noise, and if so is it a disadvantage in other ways, e.g. will it cause measurable extra wear on rolling stock, will the rails not last as long?

 

From distant memory I recall putting coins on the track makes a similar noise.Just my two pence worth...

 

I think this idea was discussed a while ago in one thread or another.
Edit. Had a look but can't find it. Anyway I think it was held to be a bad idea.

 

This thread last year.

 

Dear Sirius,
I wish people would read what I wrote, rather than firing from the hip. As I explained above, I was making a general point about a national characteristic. Anthropologists tend to study remote tribes in the Amazon basin; there are not many anthropological studies of the English, but I can recommend one: "Watching the English" by anthropologist Kate Fox. I was not implying any exclusivity, neither restricting my point to the English (i.e. to say that the English have a characteristic does not mean that no-one else has it), nor to the preserved-railway-going public, nor yet to the issue of jointed rail. I have no idea if anyone has complained about jointed rail, all I am going by is Monkey Magic's comment that "I don't see to (sic) many people complaining", which implies that some people have complained. It was also this same comment that introduced the idea that anyone might object to the lack of the clickety-clack. All I said in my original comment was that I thought it would be noticeable, not that anyone would mind, necessarily.
While we are on the subject, I would say that, in my mind, the audible side of the experience is every bit as important as the visual (and the olfactory). There's no point in painting the locomotive exactly the right colour if the train doesn't sound authentic. Saying people don't care if the track is welded is missing the point. The same people probably wouldn't care if the ex-GWR locomotive at the head of the train was painted red, or was attached to an ex Southern tender or all the carriages were painted BR blue. So why does anyone bother getting these sort of details right if it doesn't affect the bottom line?

 

WSR Infrastructure Engineering report 4,000 fishplates that need maintenance.
That's about 200 per mile.
x 48 wheels on a 6-coach train
= about 9600 clicketies (&/or clacks) per trip.
I should think that's enough to keep anybody happy.

 

This sums it all up really good clean trains with good food and service are the most important thing to keep familys coming back which is where the money is to be made. Enthusiast make up a small amount off visitors. The important thing is to keep maintenance as good and as efficient as possible and cwr is that the savings being spent on bridges and other infrastructure.

 

You’ve attributed a quote to me which I don’t appear to have made.

You appear to be about 80 years behind the times when it comes to anthropology. As a footnote ‘mass observation’ is perhaps one the largest anthropological studies ever done. There are also a huge number of micro studies (afterall the whole point of anthropology is that that is about small communities and can not be extrapolated to the macro level.)