'Cathedrals Express'. 28/06/18

You choose to resurrect the debate, so here goes. Everybody accepts cancellations are not acceptable which leaves two choices - diesel only or show pony. The latter option seems a collosal additional expense for promoters working to marginal profits, especially as we regularly receive the wisdom that "the day out" is by far the most important aspect to the majority of customers.
Clearly those at the sharp end have faith in the anecdotal feedback from show pony trips, maybe there is some confirmation bias in that? There is also a longer term risk, it seems to me, in choosing to believe the illusion of a steam hauled train is sufficient to meet the needs of the target market, that it will become a normalised or expedient mode more often. Personally I think the promoters should be very wary of undermining the 'exclusive' nature of the real thing by assuming the show-pony is ok. I suspect most customers would be totally understanding of diesel haulage in the circumstances, especially if accompanied by token refund, which would doubtless amount in total to far less than the show pony costs.
As to any losses incurred, its my understanding that promoters and loco owners take out business interruption insurance as mitigation against circumstances such as this. Would that not, perhaps, cover any adverse customer reaction requiring all or part reimbursement or loss of income?

 

And so the argument goes on and on...to the point of boring predictability on both sides. The only way any of you will ever get an answer to the repeated questions is in future passenger receipts. Until then I'm sure the promoters/operators will continue to do what they need to do to keep the vast majority of their customers happy.

 

Ok.

 

its simple really cancel the steam bit, you get your refunds to go play on the preserved lines with full steam like the rest of us are doing atm, and let the diseasel lads fill the train instead.the day trippers and diners who don't care whats on the front get a day out and the diseasel lot get an extra day out on the mainline.

 

You’re forgetting about the loss of revenue to the steam locomotive owners.

 

You responded to a post from @1020Shireman which seems to have been made over 3 weeks ago so I assumed you were keen to resurrect the debate.

 

Lot less of a loss then it is to run a show pony or cancel the trains all together,

 

You’re missing the point. Less of a loss to the TOC maybe, but a total write off to the locomotive owner.
Cancelling the trains is not an option as has been discussed ad nauseum.
This comment by @acorb sums it up eloquently:
‘Cancellation & postponement causes massive inconvenience to a lot of people, including hotel fees, travel arrangements & bad publicity for the promoter. Joe public expect to be able to travel when the trip is planned.’
Also many of the customers are booked by people celebrating a birthday, wedding anniversary etc, so are date sensitive and cannot just be cancelled.

 

With respect safeguarding the hire fee is a rather different argument for using a show pony, particularly if a replacement loco is sent specially if the original one isn't available.
Nobody is advocating cancelling trains, just not pretending because its got steamer on the front alls fine.

 

Mmm not too sure about that. I don’t do many tours nowadays except for birthdays and special occasions when we book well in advance for a table for two, premier dining.
Things can go pear shaped for all sorts of reasons, but I would still hope to see a steam loco in the consist, working or not. If that’s not possible c’est la vie. Not going to throw my toys out of the pram.
The train must still run, even if diesel hauled with or without a show pony or it will ruin a day we’re supposed to be celebrating at a considerable cost.

 

Celebrate it another way ,another day, I booked for the dutchy with 5043 didn't happen but I had a pretty good day with 37706 on Sunday my food was nice didn't ruin my day in anyway,

 

Yes the train must run when, nobody is saying otherwise. The only differing view is whether a show pony must accompany the obligatory diesel. It's all very well to say people will be appeased by the token appearance but doesn't that risk tarnishing what the experience is supposed to be about? These trains are not primarily aimed at enthusiasts, no, but it's clear from the advertising that a roaring steam loco battling gradients is very much part of the spectacle being sold. Clearly that can't happen at the moment, people will understand why, far better to accept the working steam loco is not an option and concentrate on providing the other features exceptionally than try to give faux steam to mitigate against perceived adverse reaction. Just be honest and customers will be appreciative.

 

Well if the promoters are prepared for the 'additional expense'..........who are we to argue ? it's their money.

 

2/3 years ago I went down to Wakefield Westgate to see the SSE off to the seaside. Mid summer, school holidays, there were a lot of people waiting, many children with buckets and spades. What came up the hill from Kirkgate ?? a Brush 4..........no steam
I'd been expecting 46115, the kids and families didn't care, ("a roaring steam engine battling gradients") they hit the carriages like a tidal wave, I was the most disappointed person on the station..........and I wasn't travelling

 

Ok. So it seems you have some remarkable insight over and above that of the various entities with a vested interest in making these tours successful.

 

Exactly we are in the minority now, most of the public who travel aren't bothered by whats on the front.

 

Some people don't even notice what is on the front. A couple of occasions when travelling on SD trips some years ago tourists and commuters boarded the train (Bath was one location, can't remember the other) thinking it was a normal service. The stewards asked to see their tickets and when finding normal network tickets said to them "you shouldn't be on here this is a steam hauled charter train". "Steam hauled? We didn't see a steam train" "It is the big black and green thing making lots of noise and smoke and steam at the front madam". Always remembered this incident as there was a lot of laughter from the passengers in our carriage as we watched in disbelief.

Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk

 

Not at all surprised, most weeks when I stewarded the DCE from London someone at Staines would ask if it was the Windsor train.