BR Standard class - practice and performance

No, they didn't. The remit for the Standards was to produce similar power outputs to the pre-Nationalisation classes but without the demands for labour that these needed. They were intended to need easier servicing between duties and run longer mileages between works overhauls, not produce impressive power outputs.

This was one reason why they were often viewed rather poorly by some enginemen: they weren't a (performance) improvement on what they already had so they couldn't see the point. Easier servicing was all very well, but the men spent most of their time out on the road and wanted an engine which outperformed the older types.

 

Wasn’t there also the issue that P&D was generally done on the basis of a fixed time allowance per engine (depending on its size) and therefore, all the time significant numbers of older engines still existed, management didn’t see the cashable saving from quick preparation, while to the men, increased efficiency would likely be seen primarily as a threat to jobs? Neither of which would likely be the cause of subsequent paeons of praise.

Tom

 

Highest measured DBHP
Duchess 2511
Britania 2250
A4 2250
WC/BB 1962

This is in phantasyland as more steam is used than what can produced in boiler.
Kind of a steam accumulator locomotive.
Was two firemen at a time used in revenue UK service?
If not, a 3000lbs coal per hour rating .seems more usefull for traffic planning.

Duchess 1460 dbhp,Brit 1800,V2-1730.MN 1600

 

While those figures were not sustainable, they do demonstrate an advantage of steam locomotives over other forms of traction: an ability to produce more short term power than the boiler can theoretically achieve, by mortgaging it, i.e. using its reserves of heat and energy in allowing the water level to fall but maintaining the pressure.

Tom, yes, preparation times were based entirely on heating surface, the boundary being 1500 sq.ft.

 

How about no. 71000 "Duke of Gloucester" ? From a trip in september 2005 it was measured to recordbreaking 2709 Drawbar horsepower.

Knut

 

Makes 27 horsepower per ton compared to Britannia that gives 24 horsepower per ton.Best steam figure for Duke was 12.2 something per something and brittania used 13.3 same so ultimate conclussion is that a Caprotti Britannia would be faster going uphil as there was less locomotive mas.

 

This is mentioned in the RCTS book B.R. Standard Steam Locos Vol 4 page 15. The proposal from ALE Co Ltd was put forward in 1955.
Now to upset the purists. Proposals were also put forward for other Classes to be fitted with Caprotti Gear, including the Kings, Counties and rebuilt Merchant Navy's.

 

there are a few hp "records" achieved (calculated) post 1968 . 6233 - 3600 idhp . and 46115 2000+dbhp. i'm sure others can provide more instances . Blue Peter achieved 2350 DBHP and one max of 2850 in 1992 on the S&C . Landau credits 46229 with 2800 , and in excess of 2100 for both the Lizzies . the source for 60532 and the Lizzies is the settle & Carlisle railway (Nock)

3000 lb per hour was the benchmark for one fireman .

the lower row of figures show what would(may) be expected if conditions on the footplate remained static . They didn't of course and there are many records of crews prepping their engine for a time limited effort . the Duchesses exceeded 2000 DBHP on probably a daily basis . even 3000lb per hour would be an exceptional effort unless you wanted to kill the fireman

I would question your figure for the V2 . I have never seen a record of very high output for these engines . which doesn't mean it never happened - just that I have not seen it

 

that is meaningless unless you know how much was on the hook

 

You mean the company marketing the Caprotti valve gear put together proposals to fit it on a number of different classes? I'm shocked, I tell you, shocked, distressed, astonished and angry...

 

Makes a bit of sense ( but a lot of expense) for the Merchant Navy as part of a Rebuilding program... not sure about the others....

 

That is very interesting. A King with caprotti valve gear? Would look very odd I suspect!

 

An interesting project for a modeler I guess

 

You still have the handicap of four cylinders being less effective than two doing same work.
Even BMW makes three cylindered engines for same reason.
And Fiat two cylindered

 

Is new-build steam not modelling?
Expensive modelling:

 

The Merchant Navy 3000 lbs/hour value of 1600 hp is rebuild value.

 

in the hands of a skilled crew that is precisely what a steam locomotive is

 

I have pdf copies of BR tests for Brit,V2,Hall and Class 8.
Could we pool somewhere without going to jail for Copyrigth?

 

Yes but having 200 horsepower more for 5 minuttes does not change timetable very much.

 

"no they didn't"

you are quite correct except in the case of the extraordinary trials with 70005 . if you believe Nocky at any rate . he said they wanted the loco to outperform all other types .

yes , they wanted reduced down times . unfortunately if a standard was in a line of older engines waiting disposal it just didn't happen .
they may have achieved more if some sheds were designated for use by standards only