Boiler Repairs and Competency - ex Lottery turns down funding for GCR Museum

I wonder how well any ambitions to do more in-house sit with increasingly stringent modern pressure vessel regs, come time for boiler repairs.

 

Other than for welding, there still isn't any formal requirement for any sort of qualification to do boiler work - however it's generally as well to know what one is doing!
I think it varies hugely from line to line how much voluntary work can be done and how much has to be placed with outside contractors. Certainly where I'm involved as a volunteer, we have amongst the volunteers a skill set that would probably allow us to build a loco from scratch, never mind overhaul one - however we don't always have the man hours with those skills to get everything done which needs to be done, and that's where contractors come in handy (full disclosure - I make a living working for such a contractor).

The tricky bit in all this is getting enough paying public through the gate to cover the costs of all the contractors...

 

They must be competent - but there isn't a "qualification" as such.
Boiler inspection has pretty much always been contracted to professionals anyway (not least because of the "marking your own homework" issue) - my comment was more about doing the actual work, rather than inspecting it...

 

All boiler work is safety critical. It should be carried out by time served boilersmiths. Unfortunately, this is not always the case. One day there will be an accident and the ORR will come down on the steam locomotive industry like a ton of bricks.

 

As a time served boilersmith, I'd quite strongly disagree with the blanket nature of both those assertions.

Some aspects of boiler work are very much safety critical and should be overseen by somebody competent (which generally is going to mean a time served boilersmith, or possibly a boiler inspector). Some aspects aren't even slight safety critical (e.g. removing a scrap steel firebox can be done by any Tom Dick or Harry - the worst that can happen is they create extra work for later).

Some boiler work (e.g. marking and drill stay holes) can be done by anyone (drilling holes is hardly difficult, although sometimes the marking out is not trivial), but stuff it up (e.g. drill a hole in the wrong place) and potentially you've just scrapped an expensive component.

Some stuff really has to be done by someone who knows what they are doing - pneumatic riveting for instance.

I'm also not terribly sold on the concept of a time served boilersmith as the be all and end all either.
Some of the worst boilerwork I've ever seen has been done by people who have did their time with firms that are quite well regarded. There is also a question of specialism - some firms may handle a lot of press work - others sub it out. Some firms essentially only ever do copper boxed boilers - others mainly do steel boxes. Depending on where your boilersmith did his time, there will probably be huge gaps in knowledge as well as areas of specialism (I personally know a lot about forming interesting shaped pressed steel plates, but have only really the basics with copper - just because of the part of the market my employers were in).

It's also the case that for any given thorny problem if you get three boilersmiths together you'll end up with at least four different opinions on what should be done about it!

By far the most worrying boilers in the heritage scene aren't the ones that any form of boilersmith has been at for a good while anyway - certainly with traditional riveted boilers if you've managed to get it watertight and through a hydraulic test, it probably won't kill you. It's some of the tired boilers that no one's seen inside of for 10 years, haven't had a repair beyond sets of tubes for 30 years, and where the boiler inspector is perhaps being a bit lenient. I've seen some right horror stories which have found their way into work's yard having been in steam a few months earlier.

Incidentally, if you want to die in a boiler explosion, go to France - I've seen a number of French boilers, and dealt with several French boiler inspectors - to describe them respectively as "rough" and "not very competent" doesn't really do them justice!

 

Posts about boilers - the last twelve or so posts - do need to be in a separate thread I believe. There is much of interest there and posts such as the previous one contain some quite important comments.
Beside which they have little to do with a failure of a grant application.

 

I'm much in agreements with John on this. Just because you are a time served boilersmith does not mean that you will do a good job. I've seen some pretty awful work done by organisations that people on here would generally hold in high esteem.
I'm generally fairly confident about the condition of railway locomotive boilers in use. I'm more concerned about what goes on in the road locomotive field where much of the work is done by individuals who also have to fund it so there is a vested interest in minimising cost. In the past I've seen some real horrors when visiting Israel Newton's works and accompanying a boiler inspector in the field. I've heard comments such as " 'I only need a ticket to allow me to sell it so I don't want to have to do anything to it." There's no ORR laying down standards for these boilers and carrying out overinspections of maintenance regimes, etc.

 

These vessels have to be insurable. If one does go pop, the insurance industry will drive regulation on these a lot harder. It is therefore in everyone's interest that they are up to standard.

That being said, a hydro test does more than verify integrity. It helps drive out residual stresses in the vessel via fretting and further strengthens the boiler post manufacture.

As for competency. Some of the most competent people I have met in my professional career left school at 14/16 with barely two pennies to run together but had a solid work ethic and an open mind.

The skills and experience they posses isn't to be understated.

Some of the least competent are CEng and aren't afraid to let everyone else know!

 

I’ve no expertise in this field but I get the impression a number of railways want to build up their in-house boiler repair capabilities because they want more control over turnaround times than many of the established contractors are able to offer, no doubt due to their workload.

 

I think iv said this before, but it would be prudent if a few groups got together and went in on a big press, and lined up for die manufacturing.

Then, if someone needs a new throat plate for example, they can turn out a few for the same class loco and put some on a shelf for next time.

Getting the finances right is the tricky bit. But once the press is bought and commissioned, it will start paying for itself very quickly.

 

Meningen I have been told looked at building a batch of 'Austerity' boilers. Given the number of loco's the economics were attractive but it didnt look as though the owners could afford them sadly

 

Surely that is basically the model that has seen six Bulleid Light Pacific fireboxes made, or being made, at South Devon Railway Engineering - SDRE have the press, and the groups worked together to produce the dies needed to form the various plates.

Tom

 

I have also been told that road locomotive boiler certificates can be a bit - iffy ..................

The stories from the US are pretty horrific, for loco, traction engine and power station boilers.

 

Well then, id encourage owners of BR Standards for example to club together on some dies and contract SDRE to get some stock on the shelves. Plan it now and they can start making some contributions to get on the front foot, wont be so savage on the balance sheet if they can pay it up over a few years.

What else is numerous enough to justify it? GWR's finest?

 

There are several reasonably large presses about in the scene. Probably the nicest is South Devon's but there are others. My employers have a rather good 300t press and matching large plate oven being installed at the moment - the intention being to use 2 part tooling with it to form large loco boiler pressings.

Ultimately, the real issue isn't so much the number of businesses, as the number of boilersmiths - and that's going to remain a problem all the while it's not terribly well paid (I could probably double my wage using my skills in another industry - I only do boilers because I enjoy it, and don't really need to earn all that much). Boilers however are terribly labour intensive, and if you think boiler work is expensive now, imagine what it would cost if you double the labour component!

 

I think the Dinmore Manor group have a die for the Manor throatplate (or possibly backhead plate) which has also be used for another loco.

Keith

 

Your right there.