West Somerset Railway General Discussion

The issue is one of context on this forum and I would have thought as a Moderator you would have known that. People making statements on here need to be accurate and not mislead, and whilst some people here give a good balanced and informed opinion (I personally have learned a lot from some of the informed people here) many jump on things to turn them into a big conspiracy at every opportunity. Whilst we have some challenges as do all railways and we have some hard work to do to get us up to scratch, the facts are that the WSR passenger numbers this year are up, the revenue has increased, we ran more miles than previously and we had some great events.

I personally have raised £160,000 in funding this year and run the first 1940’s weekend which netted over £25,000, in addition the WSSRT has raised £40,000, the WSRA ran a steam rally which netted over £40,000 and we are planning more fund raising next year supported by both the WSRA & PLC, so we also have much to be proud of and we have come a long way in 2018 from where we were. All of these things have been reported on here yet they draw no comment at all, however the minute something is negative it generates 20 pages of negative doom saying and gets blown out of proportion.

People inside the WSR did start to be more informative and some such as #Aldfort when out of their way to encourage people to contact them directly to get the facts. You will have noticed recently that most of the people from the WSR heavily involved and in the know have stopped posting on here, frankly they tried and they have stopped as its too negative. This is an example you didn’t say well done Andy for raising all that money, you just said I’m a part of the problem. So I won’t be the “gift that keeps on giving” any longer and I’m now going to join them and stop as well, it’s too sole destroying.

 

And, it should be noted, this is something that doesn't just affect the WSR threads. There are several threads concerning other railways where some of the best informed and involved people used to post, but no longer do so - often for the same reasons as those cited here. Ironically the demands for more information, and the way that it has been treated when given, has lead to less information, not more. Freedom to speak and voice an opinion carries a responsibility. Use it wisely, or others will increasingly use their freedom not to speak. Nobody has a duty to post anything on Nat Pres!

Steve B

 

It can be confusing when posts are removed but discussion of what they were about continues. However in this recent instance we do have the link from post #14467 which gives a clear statement of what is happening, albeit quite reasonably lacking in detail.

If those in the know about current issues (on any railway) feel unable to contribute here, that is a shame. But I don't see demands for more information in recent posts here.

There are a few about what others should or shouldn't be posting

And there is discussion of the expected financial consequences of cancelling some operations in the first months of next year but I see no harm in that discussion. It appears that the loss of net revenue won't be too serious and is a reasonable price to pay for being able to concentrate on whatever needs to be improved.

 

Beancounter has quite correctly noted the high 'set up' costs of Galas. The publishing, post the event, of revenue figures
will invariably be good for the soul but not necessarily indicative of financial health. Over the last few years my
understanding is that WSR Spring and Autumn Galas have, after all costs, including an allowance for revenue that
would have been forthcoming if a 'normal' service had operated, generated a surplus (net margin). However this has been invariably only a four figure sum. It begs the question could all the time and energy be more profitably utilised in other ways ?

However Galas may have a 'goodwill element'. ( Always difficult to value, hence it's popularity in the past with
'creative accountancy' ) Question. "If the WSR ceased to hold Galas, would it increasingly become simply a
branch line to the seaside ? A Paignton to Dartmouth type operation ? ( But the populations and economies
of West Somerset are very different to South Devon, not least GDPs )

( As an aside the WSR SEPT Chair was quoted as stating 'gross receipts for the recent ASG as £70K.
At the same time gross receipts for the Bluebell Giants of Steam (the 'home fleet' plus A4 No.9 ?)
was quoted as £150K) Does this suggest large locos are key to success ?)

Regarding the 'ACE' weekend. Not a weekend, actually, Tuesday April 2 to Saturday April 6. Like the FS
week ( which after all costs netted a very substantial 6 figure sum. The fact that most of this money
was spent on infrastructure works does not as some have suggested negate it's success ) the 'ACE' five days
concept involved pre sold tickets, allocated seats, greeting marquee etc. The customer base, as with
the FS event, are people seeking a day out in which knowing exactly what will happen and with a
flavour of steam and nostalgia play their part.

The key to success is selling tickets ahead of the event particularly to coach Companies. The financial
advantages are obvious, outside of full seat occupancy, the revenue generated by the pre event sales
assists cash flow, particularly beneficial if the event is scheduled at the beginning of the season. ie
through the winter months when revenue is negligible but costs are incurred.

I can assure you Andy that the event was predicated on the basis of generating a net margin
greater than the figure quoted for the total value of the ( great news by the way ! ) recently announced
WSRA led 'communities' success.

So why cancel the 'ACE' event. When preselling such an event I think it is reasonable that
when handing over one's cash one is reassured the event will take place and there is a very good
chance it will go to plan on the day. I suggest a Railway closed for three months cannot with
all honesty meet these hopes with an event commencing on the second day of reopening.

Andy, presold all ticket events are based on our limited experience ( yes I recognise the 60103
cachet) one way to improve the WSR's financial health. They are not a panacea, but the 'ACE'
concept is not a 'bad idea' . I do hope NIVH is not entering the equation.

Michael Rowe

 

I thnk you are missing the point in this case. The harsh reality is tha it is hard to see that the WSR PLC Board would not have taken the action if the ORR had not intervened. The ORR don't do that lightly and it does cause concern that the situation was allowed to occur. A number of people have been critical of the WSR PLC board for years and have made numerous private representations that have been ignored. That has to change and the ORR visit is a big wake up call for this to happen. To suggest it should not be discussed publicly is not acceptable. Of course facts are crucial but in this case the shareholders, staff and public have not been given them by the WSR PLC. There is, as your efforts have shown, a tremendous amount of goodwill towards the WSR but that needs to be nurtured by keeping people informed. Not telling the shareholders whilst putting the information on the staff website and telling staff to keep quiet is a classic example. IMHO the WSR PLC needs to employ the services of a professional PR firm and take note of their advice.

 

Meantime, work goes on...


Pic by WSR Infrastructure Engineering and subject to Creative Commons licence.

and there'll be a lot more going on - regular and one-off maintenance - throughout the year as ever.

No need to shut this thread in my view but folks will not find every snippet of WSR news here. Try regular visits to wsr.org.uk which has a fair old chunk of WSR news including, for example, details of the £96K grant mentioned earlier, as do the Official WSR and WSRA and WSSRT websites, and several WSR group/dept Facebook/Twitter pages.

Steve

 

With respect Peter, ORR inspections (on site and/orfrom a distance) are a regular feature as all heritage railways will know. The WSR is no exception and overe many years has worked - as in this case - with ORR to put things right if necessary. Nothing new. With this visit there seems to be a higher than number of issues uncovered, some of them seemingly concerning paperwork.

As for information, no-one has told staff to keep quiet about the latest ORR issues beyond the longstanding wording on the staff website reminding staff not to divulge information beyond appropriate railway operations. I agree shareholders will not have seen the same information as early as the staff in this case.

The Plc as licenced operators of the railway will no doubt be looking into just how these issues came to be, and will surely take appropriate action, whether the issue is related to mechanical, recordkeeping, competency, or whatever.

We will all get more information - as the Plc Chairman suggests- when the full ORR report is available, perhaps too when the ORR made a public statement themselves.

I do agree PR could/should be given more attention.

I'd like to give the present Board the chance to work through this - clearly some of the fault lies with previous Boards, not that much can be done about their (probably well intentioned) decisions; even so, the present Board are left to clear up that mess. Let's get behind them...

Steve

 

On a plus point it looks like the road works at Cross Keys will be finished sooner than expected.

 

I would agree that the Plc probably needs to work on its PR but I'm not sure a professional PR firm is the answer to the unusual way in which heritage railways in general work and share information compared to "normal" companies. Look at West Coast rail for a "typical" company's information spreading! Equally, I don't see why this particular piece of information needs to be disseminated so widely so quickly. Quite rightly it was put on the staff website as they need to know. Outside of that - shareholders - not immediately no. Given that there's no website that only shareholders can see I don't see why a special mailshot should be necessary. Besides, generally info circulated to volunteers on most railways can reasonably be expected to be kept fairly quiet, but shareholders are members of the public as far as I'm concerned, so if the info goes to them, it's in the public domain, and not everything needs to be public domain.

I appreciate this is a little more serious, but when ORR visited us we didn't feel the need to publish anything publicly, but volunteers were told. In this case given ORR feel the need to go public it's quite right volunteers should be told first, but not anyone else, discussion ought to take place when ORR have said their public thing, as the Plc itself says, it would not be appropriate to pre-empt that.

 

Looking from the outside I wonder if the current situation has arisen because some individuals have preferred to maintain egos at the expense of the WSR - the body they are supposedly responsible to protect and serve ?

Whilst agreeing that keeping people informed CAN be a good thing, there is information which is rightly the prerogative of the particular bodies (e.g. WSR Board) and should be kept within those boundaries. As a long term enthusiast and supporter of heritage lines I do not wish to know every detail of policy decisions but simply wish to know that development plans are being made - and that everyone concerned is "singing from the same song sheet". IMHO there is no place for egos where the the survival of a heritage line in the currently competitive environment is concerned hence where it arises it needs to be removed - and quickly.

 

Either you have missed the crucial points or I have not made them clear enough. Let me spell them out.

The WSR PLC has suffered from weak and ineffectual, management for years. Ultimately this is the result of successive boards that have not addressed the underlying problems. These failings have been repeatedly been brought the attention of the WSR PLC board but little effective action has been evident. In the end several people have approached the ORR with detailed evidence that they needed to take action, and eventually the ORR have acted, To suggest that their recent inspection was routine is simply wrong. To dismiss problems with paperwork as though it was trivial is unwise to say the least. Any safety system stands or falls on complete, accurate and up to date records. If that is neglected, or prompt action is not taken to rectify matters it is a route to disaster. Before anyone thinks the people who have approached the ORR are troublemakers they are so wrong. Only after much thought about, and frustration with, the WSR management have they taken that action. If there is any criticism of them it is that they waited far too long and I include myself in that category.

 

I thank you for your clarification, Peter. I'll PM you.

Steve

 

I am under the impression that Peter (Yorkshireman) doesn't see my posts. However, I have to complement him - as someone closely connected with the WSR and often makes use of their trains - for pointing out the realities here. Sadly there are some who paint a very rosy picture of things in Somerset, but I am sure many NP readers were able to see though it all. I can understand the 'damage limitation' by some WSR folk, after all it is their well loved line. However, now the line - and that not only includes the PLC but also the Association - having, it seems, received a kick up the pants, will press on with whatever is required and that includes the loco appeals.

 

To clarify, are you saying that:

* the ORR visited specifically due to multiple whistleblowers contacting them

* you were one of those whistleblowers

* this was done because you (plural) did not agree with the recent behaviour of the WSR plc board

That is what your words above imply to me; given the implications, I did not want to go away with the wrong impression as to what has actually occurred.

I agree completely with your words about the importance of safety-critical paperwork. Far too many people in heritage railways dismiss it as faff or unimportant paperwork, and this is raised as a contributory cause in probably the majority of heritage railway accident reports.

 

Your point about paperwork and ORR is well made. I think the lack of same, and poor recordkeeping, was key to ORR "grounding" WCRC for months a few years back.

I find the rest of your post intriguing (and worrying)

 

Fair point @Big Al . I note the Ffestiniog is completely closed for all of Jan, Feb and Mar and the Welsh Highland has only a very restricted service on a small section of the line on a few dates.

 

In fact it is closed for more than that - after tomorrow there are no trains on the Ffestiniog except for the week after Christmas until the end of March. They do have the advantage, of course, of being able to run on the WHR from both ends (and will be doing so - not necessarily meeting in the middle), but it gives the opportunity to do some serious infrastructure work.

Steve B

 

As someone who attended two days of the gala, I don't think the success of the Bluebell's Giants of Steam was especially due to having a large loco. I think it had more to do with how they marketed that loco's visit. It wasn't just hauling trains up and down the line, they made an event out of its visit, the trains it worked were billed as special non-stop express workings and on each one no.9 carried a different headboard from a famous express service. The Bluebell also encouraged people to pre-book seats on those trains and two coaches on each train were reserved for pre-booked ticket holders.