West Somerset Railway General Discussion

A lot ( most?) of carriage maintenance is down to them standing outside in all weathers with the bodies rotting - that's got nothing to do with the mileage they run.

 

The WSR fleet shows all the signs of not being stored undercover

 

Given what has been said about loadings in some other posts in the last page or two, a thorough recast of the timetable might help to balance the books, so should at least be considered.

However nearly all main line trains have been fixed-formation for many years. BR and now the TOCs have evidently found it cheaper to run empty coaches up and down the line than to go to all the bother of removing them. How different is that on a heritage railway?

 

Wouldn't space play a large part in those decisions? If they are splitting where do they park them that won't interfere with other daily tasks such as shunting?

 

If NatPres ever needed a motto or tagline, I suspect this has nailed it…



Simon

Ps I know it’s a typo.

 

One reason given for maintaining longer train lengths is to remove the element of risk from activities such as Shunting coaches on or off.
However loss of shunting means the experience for the train crew is also reduced.

 

I do think it's important for train crew to have good experience of a range of operations relatively regularly. Especially on a heritage railway it's quite easy to learn what is required for the limited regular, day in day out normal operations almost by rote such that when something goes wrong and you have to do something unusual it flummoxes them.

 

Actually, it was deliberate. Back in the day I used to write similarly on my tripewriter..... These modern keyboards just aren't the same.

 

Amazing. I thought this was a thread about the WSR but now realise it is full of woozle trails

Steve

 

There an interesting diversity of thought an opinion here. The NYMR has for long had a dislike of shunting and it is very much avoided, if possible. This became even more fundamental after the tragic accident involving Bob Lund. This leads on to the fact that recently passed out train crew have little experience of this. They might tick the box that says they have done buckeye coupling of coaches but it is not routine for them. Crews are even less experienced when it comes to loose coupled shunting as it never happens with any regularity.
At the other extreme, unless things have changed, I believe the Bluebell have something referred to as rules passed firemen and drivers. No doubt Tom can expand on this but I understand that such people are in the line of progression and can drive and fire in station limits but not outside these. They are the ones that do all the shunting as part of their learning and experience process. With regard to loose coupled trains of any length, does any other railway other than the Bluebell run such trains?
I can see both sides of the argument.

 

Obviously there is little of any interest happening on the WSR at the moment.

 

Likewise I can certainly see the other side. I think SVR does loose coupled freights?

 

We do a lot of shunting and making up and breaking down sets etc. Conceivably you could say it is somewhat uneconomic, but I think it is vital for experience - I'm firmly on the side of needing to practice complex operations, which means doing them as often as you can. The more you do things out of the ordinary, the more you are able to cope with the out of the ordinary when it arises; for a fireman, not least the boiler control that comes from lots of shunting, using small engines on large trains and large engines on small trains etc.

As an aside, our spring gala routinely requires a set arriving at Horsted from Sheffield Park to be split in half, with part continuing north and the other half returning south; and a corresponding joining move at other times. I don't think we could do it seamlessly unless everyone was quite used to the routine of regular shunting. (And - associated - the timetable planners having both a good idea of how long particular moves should take; and confidence that the loco crews, shunters, guards and signalmen would be on the ball enough to do them).

Tom

 

Suitability of 4110 for working trains on the WSR.

Over the last couple of days there have been some posters on this thread suggesting that ex GWR locomotives of the 5101 class (large prairie) are not suitable for working trains on the WSR. A few facts and observations will I hope clarify things.

• In GWR and BR(W) days locomotives of the 5101 class and 43xx class worked the heaviest trains on the Minehead branch, 5101 class locomotives being preferred as the larger 43xx tender locos required the use of the awkward extension bars to the 45 foot turntable at Minehead.
• The GWR and BR(W) load tables allowed 5101 locomotives to take 360 Tons (10 x Mk1) along the branch, except for Blue Anchor to Washford which was 320 Tons (9 x Mk1). In those days higher speed limits allowed for entering the steepest inclines at higher speeds, and 364 day running kept the rail heads cleaner. The present WSR limit of 8 x Mk1 takes these factors into account.
• All of the large prairies that have worked in preservation have visited the WSR and worked without problem, these being 4141, 4144, 4160, 5164, 5199, and 9351 (as the tender conversion of 5193).
• 4160 and 9351 have between them worked approximately 18% of the total steam miles of the present WSR, being 250,000 miles of the 1.4 million steam miles since the railway reopened in 1976.
• The bulk of WSR timetabled steam hauled trains for the last 28 years have been of fixed formations of 7 or 8 coaches, the Minehead based sets sometimes being reduced to 6 at certain times of the year.
• It is very unlikely that traffic patterns and coaching set sizes will significantly change in the future.
• There are a few duties that are not suitable for the 5101 class, such as footplate experience courses due to the available cab space.
• A smaller locomotive to undertake the same task is generally more economical to maintain and overhaul, all else being equal.

It is accepted that crews and some of the public will enjoy the experience of a larger more powerful locomotive, whilst others will welcome the comfort of the enclosed cab and responsiveness/ease of handling of a smaller locomotive.

The fact that there has already been considerable interest amongst the crews on the WSR for finding a way to keep 4110 on the WSR is a strong indication of their judgement on its desirability. I understand that the appeal response so far also provides a clear indication of the public wish to see the locomotive retained for use on the WSR.

I trust that this provides clarification on the matter.

Andy.

 

That is extremely helpful Andy. I am now convinced that the loco would be suitable for every day running on the WSR. The only question I my mind now if the funds can be raised who would take on the project if the WSR PLC does not feel they want to. The most obvious would seem to be the WSRA but obviously all options would need to be explored. I personally would not contribute unless, and until, a detailed scheme was produced.

 

Surely the Plc would fit it in to their schedule as and when they think it would fit, nothing would change on that front since they bought it a few years ago? My understanding is that the Plc purely need to money and this seemed like a reasonable way of doing it, rather than any express desire to get rid if this useful loco, so if they get the money, no need to knock it out of the normal restoration queue?

 

This seems a rare opportunity for the PLC to have their cake and eat it. Bring in some badly needed cash and have the loco still resident, to be overhauled for service as and when convenient. Therefore I would hope they could accept a somewhat lower price than if selling the loco outside the family.

 

Wouldn't it be better for the PLC to retain ownership of the loco and start an appeal or share issue for the money they need, if selling/buying it requires raising an extra £20,000 to be wasted on government VAT?

 

Even better if it went to a vat registered charity which could claim gift aid on the donations. To my simple mind that should be the WSRA. However........

 

The GM was overheard today at BL talking about getting rid of 44422 as well. Interesting considering, IIRC, it was put on long-term loan to the PLC (15 years?) and has got quite a long time left on the boiler ticket. I wonder what the owning group will make of it. Anyone know what’s happening with it at the moment? It’s been stopped out of traffic since 2017 IIRC.