How many times did this happen?

90763 was an escapee from Scottish stock when Kingmoor (68A) was transferred to the LMR in 1958 and became 12A. A similar fate befell the Clans, which also all started life as Scottish region stock.
90763 was certainly an occasional visitor to Holbeck, presumably over the S & C.

 

Yes, indeed. There is a Gavin Morrison photo of the loco at Holbeck in the book "Power of the W.D.s"

 

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Fair enough, but was it a 2-8-0 or 2-10-0? "No brakes" was a common reason for rejection over the S&D!

 

With there puny Midland axleboxes that would run hot shunting up and down the shed yard I would think they would only be used as a last resort when all the last resorts had been used!

 

I’ve deleted the post now, I missed the fact you said 2-10-0, it was a 2-8-0 tried out on the S&D. On another point you raised, I assume that the more frequent use of 8Fs on passenger work was due to some of them being starred, ie having better balancing for faster work. I may be wrong but I thought it was only those that could work fully fitted class C freights.

 

AFAIK the Austin 7's were 'rusty coupling' locos throughout their lives. In other words, no vacuum brake so no oily screw coupling, just a rusty 3-link. No vacuum brake so no passenger trains.

 

Yes, in theory at least, it was the starred locos only on these sorts of jobs.

 

I just caught the tail end of the number 7s at Kettering ,what punny Midland axle boxes are you talking about. Can you name a Midland loco' of any sort hat had to come of a train due to a hot box.?Maybee in the early days that happened ,but I never heard of one or seen one in the fifties.

 

The boxes weren't good on the 4Fs, but better than people think. In pre-Grouping days with the restricted loads imposed by the MR, there probably was little trouble. It was the Austin 7s and Garratts which were bad, but they were LMS engines, and far bigger and more powerful than anything the Midland built. With the influx of WD 2-8-0s after the war, the remaining Austin 7s - about half had been withdrawn - were transferred to the former L&Y lines with shorter runs to ease the stresses on their axleboxes. The following states that both the 7s and 4Fs had troubles:

Memo from E Stuart Cox to S J. Symes, 09-06-31

0-8-0 Standard Type 7

Hot Boxes. The right driving boxes on these engines have been very troublesome during 1930. In some cases it was found that side thrust had caused the heating and this may have been due to inaccuracies in the machining of the box. Some improvement has been obtained by fitting end thrust pads as is done with the No.4 class Goods, which are also fitted with these boxes. Figures for 1930 out of 120 engines are: Driving Boxes 45; Others 8. The driving journals, which are only 8½" wide as against 9" on the G2 class, appear to be somewhat overloaded.

At this time the 7s were new engines, some still to be delivered.

 

Like I said in early days ,problem sorted later, Garratts I also never saw one come of a train .Fireman cleaned out , yes. If the driver was fit/young enough he would do one side of the box and the fireman the other. Made things a lot easier.

 

I did read, years ago now, an article concerning the restoration of one of the S & D 7Fs. The quality of the white metalling of the axle boxes caused some concern. Have you access to such an article or do you recall it? It was almost as if a very much second rate job had been carried out, mention was made of oilways being blocked solid with white metal.

 

No, while interesting, this is new to me. However, while cases of poor workmanship could and certainly did exist, it is unlikely to generally applied or be confined to the ex-Midland boxes. I would also suggest that, and this isn't stated but possibly implied, that if the box had run hot it is possible for the oilways to become blocked with the melted white metal.

 

The S&D locos sat at Barry for a reasonable length of time and would be moved around as necessary during this period. In that time I'm pretty sure that no one will have oiled any axleboxes (or anything else) so I'm not surprised to hear that the white mental had picked up and blocked oilways when the locos were stripped for restoration.

 

At one level, neither would I, but though the engines were moved were they moved sufficiently far and at sufficient speed to allow this this to occur? Also if I recall correctly the oilways were solid, though this is an observation made by someone involved with the restoration. It would be useful maybe to learn from someone who was directly involved.

 

To answer the question, they were moved far enough to do damage. These were not engines on shed which would still have some oil in the system; they had stood for many years in the salt atmosphere of Barry and would be bone dry. What's more, the underkeeps, which were usually brass, would have been removed, if not by Woodhams then the local thieves, so half the journals were fully exposed to that atmosphere and would be rusty and pitted.

When we were rescuing 2968, a very early job we did was coat the exposed parts of the journals with grease. I personally went around the wagons in for breaking up and removed sufficient oil pads to fit all the axleboxes, engine and tender. These were kept oiled every time we went there in case the engine was moved within the yard. 2968 came out of Barry and was towed to Bewdley on her own wheels.

 

Thank you. I had overlooked the metal scavenging aspect.

 

I'm happy to be proved wrong but I thought that 53808 went from Barry to Radstock on its own wheels. Perhaps someone who was involved back then could comment?
Ray.

 

Correct. It stopped off at Bristol Bath Rd open day on its way to Radstock.

 

Several engines left Barry on their own wheels. 2968 left in December 1973, but a requirement for the movement was that she had to be lifted off her wheels and the axleboxes and journals inspected by a BR engineer. For this, she was moved up to Barry loco shed, but lifted by jacks in the open air. We also had to make the handbrake workable. Presumably 53808 and any others had to pass the same inspections and have a working handbrake.