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A4 60012 "Commonwealth of Australia" puzzle.

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Eightpot, Dec 16, 2019.

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  1. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

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    Sounds as if you should be hunting photos taken a little earlier. If something was added and then removed you might get lucky and find one with the something.
     
    Jimc, Dec 17, 2019
    #21
  2. 68923

    68923 Member

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    68923, Dec 17, 2019
    #22
  3. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Even more intriguing as later photos exist which show it without the hole. Conspiracy theorists might suggest an identity change although a slight difference between 60004's hole and 60012's is the apparent lack of the two smaller holes.
     
    Steve, Dec 17, 2019
    #23
  4. 68923

    68923 Member

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    Intriguing indeed. Rather than allowing something to be fastened on, I wonder if it was a local improvised means of enabling something to be poked through? A steam lance for cleaning or a means of getting lubrication in? (Before everyone shouts bo**ocks please bear in mind I am totally ignorant about what exactly is behind the cladding and am just making a guess in the absence of anything concrete coming to light!) Perhaps we will never know the "hole" truth?
     
    68923, Dec 17, 2019
    #24
  5. 46223

    46223 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Here's a photo I took of 60004 at Aberdeen Ferryhill in June 1966. No hole, just a dent. The plot thickens.

    np_1.jpg
     
    46223, Dec 17, 2019
    #25
  6. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    As best as I can establish from the photos, the hole looks to be in line with the piston valve spindle for the centre cylinder. if you look at photos of the front end of A3's they have a hole in a similar place, as did the W1 and the V2's. It seems that later, this hole was fitted with a cover plate, probably to avoid ingress of smokebox char onto the two to one gear. I think that the centre valve is generally removed inwards towards the cab rather than forwards. I wonder whether it was provided on the A3's to help with the removal of the valve but, if this was the case, why weren't the A4's provided with a similar hole, as standard.
     
    Steve, Dec 17, 2019
    #26
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  7. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    No front coupling, either! It looks like it's been in a slight argument.
     
    Steve, Dec 17, 2019
    #27
  8. 5944

    5944 Resident of Nat Pres

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    5944, Dec 17, 2019
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  9. 5944

    5944 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Shed plate has fallen off and into someone's bag as well...
     
    5944, Dec 17, 2019
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  10. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    That probably gives the reason. It may only be a few bolts but it may not be the easiest thing to remove after a period of time and expediency has come to the fore in these cases.
     
    Steve, Dec 17, 2019
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  11. 46223

    46223 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    I don't think it was a runner at the time, certainly not in steam, and withdrawn the following month.
     
    46223, Dec 17, 2019
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  12. 46223

    46223 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Don't look at me!
     
    46223, Dec 17, 2019
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  13. 60017

    60017 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    I believe you, cos you'd have gone for the numberplate !;)
     
    60017, Dec 17, 2019
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  14. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

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    That's the one, the joys of posting when your knackered and kind of know what you mean but can't quite explain!
     
    Matt37401, Dec 17, 2019
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  15. 46223

    46223 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    :eek: Ok, just to put the record straight, firstly, the shedplate had already vanished and as for the numberplate, well, I couldn't find a ladder! :rolleyes:;)
     
    46223, Dec 17, 2019
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  16. std tank

    std tank Part of the furniture

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    std tank, Dec 17, 2019
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  17. 5944

    5944 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Anyway, I've asked my dad to try and find out what the hole is for, next time he's in York working on 60007. He's there every Tuesday, so he was there yesterday, but I didn't think to ask him until after he'd left! :confused:
     
    5944, Dec 18, 2019
    #37
  18. peckett

    peckett Member

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    The hole in the cross stretcher is for access to the main fulcrum bearing of the conjugating levers, its a lot bigger than maybe thought ,oval shaped. Several ideas were tried to stop ashes falling on to the bearing ,but the one in 1947, a hinged cover was the final solution. The hole could be seen easily on early photos of the A3 s ,but that also was covered up by a sliding panel in the mid 30s,even more so when the AWS receiver box was placed in front of the smokebox door in the 50s. There is no mention of a hole in the front casing, as in the photo ' of 60012 in both RCTSs , Loco's of the LNER, classes A1 to A10 ,and Loco Profile 19 Gresley A4s.There is a very good drawing in Loco Profile A4s of the area concerned.
     
    peckett, Dec 19, 2019
    #38
  19. 5944

    5944 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Interestingly, I've just seen a photo on Facebook (which I now cannot find) showing 60005 awaiting scrapping in 1964 with a hole in the front casing.
     
    5944, Dec 27, 2019
    #39
  20. iancawthorne

    iancawthorne Well-Known Member

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    Maybe not the same picture, but... https://www.flickr.com/photos/aglr/16466297958/
     
    iancawthorne, Dec 27, 2019
    #40
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