Steam Locomotive Restoration of the Decade 2010-2019

I was not “proven wrong” at all. If anything you made my point for me! Research is key. It’s hard work. There’s photographic and written evidence.

Show me a photograph of a Jubilee in service with BR with a BR late crest, later BR numbering style and LMS style lining out and BR maroonish colouring.

That whole combination is a fiction and - to my mind anyway - you can’t claim it’s a full restoration to anything other than working order if it’s not accurate.

You may not appreciate the nuances of liveries - which fascinate a lot of people - and that is fine, you and I have different red lines.

Please don’t pretend that Galatea’s livery has any historical precedent though. It hasn’t. It never happened.

That for me is the biggest objection. Creating something fictional and claiming it historical.

 

“Period of significance” is, I think, the term of art. For example I’d contend that, for Flying Scotsman, apple green with red nameplates (and if it was possible, two tenders) is possibly the most significant form it could take these days. In its current form, it’s a generic late BR steam 7P. In 1960’s apple green it’s world famous.

 

Far too big a generalisation of the alleged 'first group'. Whom have you asked? Did you do a survey? So don't tell me I don't contribute to preservation. You have a right to your opinion, but personal attack is a different matter.

 

Have you complained to the NRM that 92220 was never fitted with steam heat when it ran on B.R.

 

Our preservation and heritage world would be a very sad place if we didn't have the people out there who do care to get those details as close to how they once were as much as possible. I think it does them and all those who appreciate their efforts a disservice to say their views are immaterial. Of course I could name scores of stations and locomotives that could be painted pink with yellow spots to put a smile on Joe Publics face to get some money rolling in?

Interesting comparison re Scotsman, as in her current form, efforts by "the purists" have been made so she is accurate "as sensibly possible" and the majority of "joe public" expect her to be 4472 in apple green.

 

A bit different really, isn't it? There are some changes imposed or are desirable to make an item operable as opposed to a static museum exhibit. Examples: steam heat as above, air brake connections, AWS/TPWS/etc., low level water fillers, rocking grates and hopper ashpans, and so on. How does painting a 5X in a spurious BR red livery become an operating requirement?

 

I feel like you haven’t actually read what I said.

So with respect, I’ve made my views clear, I’ll leave it at that.

 

Nail, head, hit.

 

I totally agree with everything here! I would further observe that whilst admiring the work that went into cosmetically changing Fenchurch to look like an A1, it is still an A1X under the skin - that, combined with the inauthentic livery with name also grates with me. I too would love to see it back in Newhaven Harbour livery.

Having said that, for me "Birch Grove" just has to be in umber livery with name!

With regard to Bluebell - the current version of Bluebell blue looks great. The original version started off with a nameplate painted on and later she acquired a proper nameplate - does that still exist?



Steve B

 

its only a tin of rust prevention, doesn't make the loco go any better or work at all in the first place.

 

No, it isn't only a tin of rust preventative. As an engineer, that's a view I could take, but as a historian, I can't. Look at the intricate liveries of many pre-Grouping engines and coaches, chosen by engineers because they knew the value of the livery scheme. There's a saying about first impressions, and what's the first thing people see? The paint!

 

For goodness sake, does it bloody matter what colour 45699 is? It was one of the worst wrecks to come out of Barry and it was turned into a runner. If the man who funded it wanted to paint it maroon than he has every right to do so. Just as he has the right to run it as long lost Alberta.
Perhaps when you've single handedly funded your own loco restoration project, you can pontificate about historical precedent.

 

Well said that man.

 

Tornado's livery is inaccurate as the loco did not exist when any of the liveries she has carried were in use by BR. Who cares though? It's another steam loco running on the main line.

 

This thread is a perfect example of gaslighting.

A debate on “best restoration of last decade”.

What does restoration entail?

We get into the nuances of what restoration entails. Livery is part of that.

It ends with yet another exasperating experience for some of us.

I do my fair share for preservation as you well know. I have absolutely nothing to prove on that point, nor should I have to answer for it.

The simple fact of the matter is that the details do matter. We’re custodians of the past. Getting the details right matters for history and for those that come after us.

Making sure we do the right thing on a practical basis is too.

 

Tornado isn’t a restoration. Deary me! Bee in bonnet and only aimed at me when others have said exactly the same thing. Ho hum. The usual suspects out in force already this year!

 

Absolutely.

 

That's why I kinda liked the grey undercoat with www.a1steam.com on the tender, it was a unique livery and it wasn't trying to pretend to be anything else.

 

When you look back, the fact that we still see steam at work hauling trains on the national network in 2020, is nothing short of miraculous, in 1968 steam was expected to have been gone, for ever, that we have TOC,s that can and do operate heritage services for the tourist market in 2020 shows how far things have come, If I was to single out any one engine, it would have to be Tornado, because it proved that new build steam engines was possible, if you had the right plan and single mindedness to do it, and its now rightly viewed as a very capable engine . I don't get worked up over liveries, its after all only a coat of paint, same with the modern additions you need to have to run on the main line, air pumps etc, in most cases they are hidden away out of sight, and don't distract visually .