LMS 2P 4-4-0

As far as I know only Watford had 2Ps and used them on light work, engineers trains etc , 40657 & 40672. The former was normally stored out of use by the coal stage.

 

Yes I had remembered Watford had one of the LMS series , but that was tucked up running the local engineer about with his saloon,in fact its nick name was Engineer Watford

 

This is another one I can't remember where I read it, but it was usually on the overnights which did stop at Rugby - these were very heavy trains with many twelve wheelers in them. C. Hamilton Ellis says that the ladies of the night would accompany their gentlemen to as far as Rugby, and then get the next train back to Euston!

London Midland & Scottish, a Railway in Retrospect (1970) Ian Allan Ltd, SBN 7110 0048 4

 

Well, better than their colleagues who apparently made do with closed compartments between Charing Cross and Cannon Street...

 

I was going to say that that was the ultimate definition of a “quickie”, but then I remembered what the SER’s attitude to timekeeping was

Tom

 

I bet this was before Stanier Pacific days, heavy trains easy timings ,no problem. I don't know anything about the ladies.!

 

Yeah, that's your story! But to get back to reality, it did involve the Pacifics. The easy, lightweight trains were strictly for daytime; these engines earned their crust on the overnights, not particularly fast overall but very heavy, 600 tons and more were fairly regular, and some of the point to point timings on postals were quite sharp. But these trains happened when the enthusiasts and train timers had gone home, and they couldn't see the mileposts anyway!

 

Rather sounds like the occupants of the compartments weren’t too fussed about the mileposts either! (I have visions of them tipping the driver a quick five bob if “you’ll just go a bit slower, mate!”)

Tom

 

Reality is and was that I travelled on overnights. What light daylight trains on the WCML are you talking about. The only one was the Caledonian. There was only two sleeping car trains to Scotland per night out of Euston in the 50s ,one to Perth and one to Glasgow. One of my (regular)overnighters was when I caught the St Pancras to Glasgow sleeper with two or three others, on one trip we alighted at Carlisle just about daybreak, we done Canal, Kingmoor and Upperby sheds.(17.08/1958) Both Canal and Kingmoor were both some way from Carlisle station so I would say it took about four/five hours to get back to the station.There was no hurry tho' ,the next train to Glasgow was the 9.35 from Manchester ,probably about 1.00pm from Carlisle. Carlisle was a dead place on a Sunday morning there wasn't even a station pilot.
After a short time what should come into the station was a red Duchess on the Perth,several hours late, as we didn't want Perth we watched them change crews, and away it went.Two or three minuets later in bowls the Glasgow ,with a green Duchess ,also hours late.(Unfortunately I had stopped taking numbers of former LMS namers as I only needed one at that time 45580 Burma ,never to be seen ) That done us nicely ,we would arrive in Glasgow several hours earlier than expected ,enabling us to do a extra shed,65D Dawsholm .
On the train we joined another enthusiast in the first compartment of the first coach. He explained that the driver of the Perth had decided not to stop at Tebay for a banker and tackle Shap unassisted. He stalled about three quarters of the way up. By this time the Glasgow was on its way after stopping for a banker, the trains buffered up, but the three loco's couldn't start the train. Another loco was sent for from Tebay, and the four loco's got the train moving. Now hours late.
The overnight sleepers were dismally slow ,we were lucky in that one of the lads was a relief signalman and always bought a copy of the working timetable for routes we were to travel on ,none of us done train timings so mile post wasn't a problem .Not only were the timings slow ,but there was recovery time put in as well. Drivers had to be careful they did' run very early.Postals ,they had very long dwell times at stations to load and unload mailbags .Most of the mail sorting was done in offices by that time and carried by normal passenger train.
No not all enthusiast went home at night,a small percentage did overnighters ,in fact a very good friend of mine still does them ,only a couple of weeks ago he done two nights on the trot on Peterborough' station, he is however some 30 years younger than me.
I attaché one photo of the 09.35 Manchester to Glasgow climbing Beatock with one of 26A Newton Heaths all stars 45706 Express, with 42130 banking,13 coaches,taken on a trip a few years earlier that went as planned. Also as we are suppose to be talking about 2P s a shot of 40536 on 12A Carlisle Upperby,in 1954.

 

Can I suggest a read of Crewe Sheds by Allan Baker and Gavin Morrison for a better insight than I can provide on the West Coast Postal between Crewe and Perth.

The day trains were largely Limited Load as there was a not unreasonable chance that they would be worked by a Class 7 Royal Scot rather than the diagrammed 8P, since there were relatively few of these and, if there was a doubt on the engine booked for the night turn, Crewe would hold back the Pacific to cover that duty and substitute the Scot. Mind you, train lengths of 16 bogies were still possible in those conditions, but with relaxed timings compared with what the Pacifics could manage.

 

No shant bother with the book ,I visited 5A Crewe North a number of times ,plus spent many hours on the station. I think I got the just of the situation.Its a pity they did'nt give pemits for 5B Crewe South ,running lines both sides of the depot was the escuse .It however was open house on a Sunday afternoon just before closure.

 

Funny you should say that! The railway photographer, Jim Carter, told me he got chucked out of Crewe North, and he was a driver in his working gear!

 

It was always best to have a permit ,once signed off a railway man was trespassing just the same. Heard off similar situations myself.

 

According to another bloke from the ELR, 26D Bury was very easy to bunk.

 

Yep, Rule 14 in the old 1950 (black) Rule Book. Funny, but when I was a guard we were on the red Rule Book, but I can't remember the numbers in that! Strange, but I can't recall anyone actually applying it to other railwaymen; it was just assumed you had a right to be there, except at Crewe North. Anywhere else?

 

Yes, well nearly 27D Wigan L&Y. Permit and my mate in fireman's uniform. We unfortunately bumped into the shed master on the way in and he said no one was coming to his shed just to collect numbers. My mate said he had come especial to see the L M S 7F s 0-8-0s,and had just missed them at the shed where he worked, and had heard a lot about them, he reluctantly gave us a cleaner to show us round, giving him instructions no number taking.Needless to say the young cleaner couldn't care less. Plenty of 7Fs too. Normally you would see the shed foreman on the way in, they where promoted drivers or fireman and mostly weren't bothered, they were doing that job for more money and regular shifts. I must say most places the normal reception was very good. I remember when we visited Southern sheds in the South East,74A/B/C/D.The Forman at Ashford arranged for a footplate trip on a Schools, that was done after my mate ask. Do these engines slip much. A demo f how steam operated fire hole doors worked.They didn't use them in that area and one had to be reassembled on a B .B or WC.Happy days.

 

The steam worked fire hole doors on the Bulleids could be lethal and one or two fireman got their hands trapped in the foot slipped off the pedal it could also mean a shovel full of coal all over the footplate. A lot of Nine Elms drivers wouldn’t let their firemen use them

 

I went on a NZR Ja class 4-8-2 that had them and they were a joy to behold. Basically identical to the Bulleid ones, except that they worked from compressed air rather than steam - maybe that made a difference?

From memory, 34092 still has them fitted amongst preserved Bulleids; not sure about any others. Didn’t get to try them myself, but I remember the owner’s rep spending a while tweaking the steam supply such that they worked nice and smoothly.

Tom

 

That must have been Ja 1240, it was in the last legs of being overhauled and converted to coal at the MNST depot in Parnel in 2011.We had oil burner 1275 on our tour .Attached photo'.