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West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by gwr4090, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    Yet people with inside knowledge of events of the last two years - some of them with very different views on the current state of the WSR - all demonstrate an unwillingness on the part of the plc, in which the chairman is by all accounts a dominant force, to engage with existing funded apprenticeship schemes. I suggest that those actions speak rather louder than words.
     
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  2. ghost

    ghost Part of the furniture

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    I think the point is that he wants apprentices if someone else is paying for them completely, including the time taken by WSR PLC staff to train them. This is a fundamental misunderstanding of how apprenticeships work.

    Keith
     
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  3. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    With the reservations I've previously expressed, I am pleased for the WSR that a large sum of money has been raised for the appeal. However, I notice in other threads that other significant preserved railways have collected much larger amounts in the same sort of timeframe, at least a couple into 6 figures. Given the passions that the WSR excites, I consider those more of a benchmark for what "good" looks like.
     
  4. Forestpines

    Forestpines Well-Known Member

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    Why wouldn't it have been? Other railways with autocoaches manage to make regular and profitable use of them, whether as part of their normal service sets or not.
     
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  5. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    Operationally, I always hear that the WSR is constrained (especially at galas) by it's division into 4 reasonably long sections. I can imagine that being a tricky balance to manage though not insoluble with some goodwill.
     
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  6. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    The WSR has used an autocoach during galas before, running shuttles between Minehead and Dunster. Could also be useful for FPE experiences, even if its not used in auto mode, it's still a passenger coach with a brake which is all you need, and open which is probably better than a BSK or similar.
     
  7. Andy Norman

    Andy Norman Member

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    Its also used a 14xx/Autocoach on Galas from BL to both Stogumber & Crowcombe and back, I remember it as one of my favourite firing turns ever. There is in fact 5 sections if you count BL to NF with a token lock in at the Norton Triangle to allow engines to swap and the BL & NF section has also been used regularity for shorter trains such as this and the S&DRT's Kilmerston on the Triangle running shuttles. The people on the ground who organise the timetables and loco rosters are very good at 'weaving trains' through the lines restrictions to allow lots of options.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2020
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  8. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    The SDR has run autocoach driver experiences. They also use the auto coaches are private hire vehicles. Of course, that would potentially take away business from the Hawksworth saloon...

    LOL. Kilmerston and the auto coach. Please don’t tell a certain someone who loves a loco that probably didn’t go at 100mph.
     
  9. Downline

    Downline New Member

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    My opinion is that its utter madness for a organisation like the West Somerset Railway to not have apprentices. If you have paid staff to manage volunteers, how can they not manage a couple of apprentices? If I as a volunteer can go and join a railway and say 'I want to work in loco restoration' with absolutely no background experience in any form of engineering, I would have to go through the same training as an apprentice, potentially more, and require a lot more supervision and refreshers especially if I was only to do a turn or two each month. Could go on and on, but I recon the cost of an apprentice could be equal or less to the cost of volunteers that would do the equivalent amount of work to a single apprentice.

    Theres more to a business than profit, I hope the WSR Plc are not going to be turning into one of them business, when they fail they tend to fail quite spectacularly.
     
  10. Premier.Prairie

    Premier.Prairie New Member

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    IMG_2616.JPG A bit of picture distraction Here's a couple of our other Auto 233 in action at the 2016 Autumn Gala when it was supplied free of charge to the WSR.
    John Wood. WSRA member 126, since 1972
     

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  11. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    The difference is that the programmes for apprentices are more prescriptive, and must be met - whereas the training for volunteers can be more task based. If one of my kids were to start an apprentice scheme, I would want to know that the organisation providing the apprenticeship were fully committed and able to deliver on it. It may be the right thing to do for all the reasons you give, but it becomes the wrong thing if you can't deliver what the apprentices need in the agreed timeframe.

    I've seen schemes work really well, and also leave apprentices up the creek without a paddle. And that's worse than no scheme at all.
     
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  12. Robin Moira White

    Robin Moira White Resident of Nat Pres

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    Care to put some numbers on that (to my mind) extraordinary statement?

    Robin
     
  13. Fish Plate

    Fish Plate New Member

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    I visited for the Spring Steam Gala a couple of years ago. I purchased the most expensive day ticket there was specifically so that I could ride in the autocoach from Williton all the way to Norton Fitzwarren and back to Bishops Lydeard. It was brilliant, especially the bit from NF back to BL when the passengers in the coach all took turns to "watch the road" from directly behind the driver and get a view of the railway that you could never normally see. At NF, the crew were really friendly and explained the linkages between the locomotive and carriage.

    I would have thought that having a home-based autocoach that can be used to charge premium prices would be a thing to be greatly encouraged, not unceremoniously thrown off the railway.
     
  14. Andy Norman

    Andy Norman Member

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    Yes I agree, the BESTT scheme helps heritage railways not used to the training in a formal structure in the form of ensuring that the correct list of NVQ disciplines are covered and they complete all the necessary paperwork evidence and classroom training without drawing away WSR resource, so it does as you say provide a real tangible nationally recognised NVQ as a result.

    Within the HPC Bid/Project what also should have happened through the new T level qualifications is that the trainees/apprentices (whichever term people feel is right) also were treated in the same way and worked for free on the WSR in many different places.

    If the PLC had allowed this to take place as was agreed and HPC paid for instead of pushing the WSR CEM off the WSR and into Bridgwater, the WSR would have had as @Downline says :
    1. In effect full-time volunteers with no additional training/admin burden for the WSR to bear (because the College would have looked after that).
    2. The Trainees would have had a real qualification verified by a College and recognised through NVQ's
    3. The College would have had their KPI's met in placing people into real live workplaces.
    4. The big thing missed by people is that the WSR is an asset, it has a real life opportunity for people to have real live experiences which the Colleges like Bridgwater & Taunton just can't provide in the Classroom and the DFE says they have to provide, its why B&T College were so keen.
    One other spin off would have been if the WSR needed say 200 boiler stays or brake rigging bushes, etc. making B&T College have rooms full of CNC Machines, I discussed with them making such things off site and providing them to the WSR. All they wanted in return was for the Trainees who made them in the College to come to the WSR and see what their work looks like in real engineering terms. A part of the WSR CEM's job should have been to host those visits and the HPC money even paid for the transport to bring the College to Minehead/Williton, so again a lot of benefit and no cost to the WSR.

    It could have been a win/win/win. All it needed was for people to see the opportunity and work toward the goal.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2020
  15. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    With respect though, regardless of the accuracy of that statement, it's kind of missing the point about the real benefits of apprentices don't you think?
     
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  16. malcolm imps

    malcolm imps New Member

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    P1010008.JPG P1010011.JPG P1010013.JPG P1010010.JPG
     
  17. Mike Birch

    Mike Birch New Member

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    https://www.somerset.ac.uk/news/on-track-for-job-opportunities.html

    (Moderator Edit: Note that the above post is a link from 2010 and is discussed further down the thread)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 4, 2020
  18. Downline

    Downline New Member

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    Robin,

    The important word is could, not is. Andy Norman has pretty well summed it up, but to work out accurately if an apprentice would cost equal or less than the equivalent volunteers you would need a lot of information which no doubt wouldn't be passed to the average joe on the street due to GDPR.

    But it is clear that apprentices could work on the WSR, but decided they don't want it to work as it costs money. Signs that the current leaders of the WSR Plc are focusing on profit instead of purpose. And as I said on my previous post, these more to a business than profit.
     
  19. Downline

    Downline New Member

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  20. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    I'm no fan of the current management, and have serious questions about their approach and behaviour. But, though there may be more to a business than profit, without profit there is no business.
     
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