West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Denial ?

 

I agree that this is how things should be; the issue is that they are as they are.


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Some of the Pilkington set is still on the mainline. Owned by WCR.

 

You are spot on there, 'Lplus';

I don't think that ex WSRA Chairman Paul Whitehouse is expecting any signaller turns this year or ever, if the railway resumes running, after he handed over a cheque for £187,000 last month, then after the photo shoot for the cheque handover to be told by JJP to "f*ck off".

From one Chairman to another, this was quite staggering, and no one has sought to question this account as to what Paul was subjected to at the time.

Quite extraordinary behaviour.

Cheers,

Julian

 

Afraid? AFRAID?

I'm an old Cold War warrior, which part of my past includes minor details like swiming ashore on the Baltic coast and being chased through a sewer tunnel under Berlin. (Yes, there is a book in prospect, how did you guess?) So nothing in Somerset is really frightening. And there have been crass attempts on my relationship with the Railway before by folk who should have known me better. And my attitude to totalitarian regimes and unfairness will, no doubt, be clear.

But it is also true that frontal assaults are rarely the sensible approach and alliances are better than handgrenades in building for the future. So, at this difficult time, please find a way to support the Railway (or another Railway) through any organisation you have confidence in. I'm biassed, I would reccomend the WSRA - charitable standards of accountability, 25% gift aid, etc. Real supporters have much more standing.

Robin

 

One doesn't need a legal qualification to voice a considered opinion .....

 

You've implied before that you've seen the S&D trust's lease on Washford site as well. Are you able to reveal for what purpose you have seen both of these contracts? Is it in a professional capacity, as a formal or informal adviser to the trust, or has someone just given them to you for bedtime reading for your own amusement?
I hope you'll appreciate from my previous posts on this subject that I'm not trying to find a particular "angle" to discredit you, it would just be good to know.

 

Hi Alex,

You ought to know jolly well that I have a copy of all the leases, not implied, and it isn't for bedtime reading for my own amusement!

Cheers,

Julian

 

Ok!

 

I've heard about those Baltic Beaches..............

You a fan of The Third Man?

Can I put my name down for a signed copy of the book, I await it with interest - something to work on during the lockdown

 

I noted that Paul had resigned "for family reasons" but there was no suggestion that this related to any interaction with JJP. Aside from anything else Paul was Chairman of the WRSA and, as such, representative of one of the three major shareholders in the WSR Plc , and therefore an employer of JJP. So abusing him in the way that you claim would be very unwise. Equally I can't see Paul, who took a very strong and personally expensive stand during the WRSA disputes, putting up with being spoken to like that, and nor would his Association. Do you have any evidence to support your story or is it another of your "privileged information" sources that you are unable to reveal ?

 

Given that the events concerned happened (just) over 30 years ago, the significance of which period of time will be clear, I have only very very recently had permission to write about them, but have a publisher interested in a proposal.

And that takes thread drift far enough.

Robin

 

Another sad aspect to this is that the events mentioned by Julian unfolded well within earshot of a number of others who were present. Perhaps the Dear Leader expected a larger tribute and the red mist descended, who knows.

Edit : A witness to the event has just contacted me to confirm Julian's account and added that the WSRA were described as "useless and pointless". Oh dear.

 

let’s break this down a bit. The copies of the leases are easy to obtain, as they are public documents downloadable from HMLR. Equally the main points of the 7F agreement have appeared in the magazine.

You have referred to other documents such as the Notice to Quit, which could only be obtained if you know someone fairly senior in the SDRT and you had their permission to receive it.

happy to take what you say at face value and on that basis I assume you have been privy to the key documents.

I am a lawyer myself but I would not pretend to know a great deal about the LTA 1954 as it’s not my area. My only comment really is that it’s very difficult to be certain of anything when it comes to Court, the obvious example being the membership case against the former trustees which was lost on a technical point despite the moral case being somewhat unambiguous (and restated on here many times).

I can only reiterate what has been said, the parties should make every effort to avoid a contested hearing. Maybe that is being done, there is of course only so much that can be said on here.

regards

Matt

 

Stockholm Syndrome maybe?

 

Well no, not really, I don't believe they agree with what has been done at all.

For the avoidance of doubt, I am not criticising those who fear to lose their hobby if they disagree with the management. A hobby nurtured and carried out for many years leading to skills and responsibilities enjoyed for what they are should not to be discarded lightly by anyone. I am merely stating that I think this is the reason for the reluctance of many volunteers and even organisations to criticise the WSR plc management, because it appears clear that any dissent will be punished severely

 

I would backup what Julian said and Snifter added. To be clear I was not there but have received the same information relaying the same wording and indeed the context in which it was said. I can only say what I was told was consistent from more than one source and the context which I was given matches the current MO for a certain person. Of course the WSRA could deny what’s being said here if they wish. It’s also worth noting that another WSRA Trustee resigned shortly afterward as well (I have not heard why).

What you say is entirely logical and perhaps it would be expected that the Trustees and the WSRA as shareholders would have spoken out before now. However take a step back and look at the overall picture.

1. It started with “You all have to follow me, I have to do some tough things which many won’t like and some trouble makers need removing, but if you don’t follow me the WSR will close in the next few days”. That was a compelling story believed by most, indeed it took me in for a while as well.
2. Then Volunteers who were working for WSRA on various projects were run out of town, and nothing was said.
3. Then other WSR Volunteers speaking out were removed and nothing was said.
4. Then HR Policies were removed, HR replaced, accounts department replaced & company secretary replaced and nothing was said.
5. Then 4110 was sold when it could have been kept with the purchase money still received as well and nothing was said.
6. Then Other locos/groups were removed and nothing was said.
7. And now the S&DRT & 5542 Group are being evicted, with no let-up due to Covid-19 judging by the very recent correspondence received and nothing has been said.
8. Then WSRA Chairman was (allegedly) insulted to the same level and with the same energy as me and others and nothing was said.
9. All of this and still no sight of a plan which will bring more people, who will bring with them money, ranging from a Volunteer with a £10 donation right through to a grant funder who will bring a £1,000,000 for a project and everything in between. Only actions which can remove and alienate people and still nothing is said.

It’s fair to say everybody has their own “oh S**t” moments when the bigger picture is seen and the forward direction is realised, I don’t know why Paul resigned but given the backing he personally gave the current PLC Chairman behind closed doors over most of the actions above, perhaps he wisely decided he needed to go without a fight and remove himself from the fallout (yes that is speculation on my part).

It’s not totally fair for me to say as I have above that ‘nothing was said’. Actually it has, various posts over the last year here and more times than I can count to me directly from the horses mouths people have stated: ‘we have it under control’, ‘don’t worry we are going to act’ & ‘don’t panic there is a plan’. I’ve even been asked to contribute to a solution or three which people will act on, but then back out of at the eleventh hour saying, we were going to but it was too difficult (the shareholding doesn’t help in fairness).

Still we live in hope, I keep hearing specific hints at actions currently from people in positions to make a difference, and whilst for the last year those hints have come to nothing, perhaps their own “Oh S**t” moments are also close, I just hope they don’t think they can control the situation through logical debate and via the usual ‘plots and plans’ so loved by the various Boards to out gun each other.

It’s really simple now, the money is it seems nearly gone and the WSR is near broke according to the PLC. Either the current Shareholders say something and change things (to the needed level) or they allow things to continue. If they continue: Either the master plan works and we all breathe a sigh of relief or if not it goes bust. If it goes bust then we can all only hope the Community/SCC/MP/Funders/Somebody steps in and they write the future and the structure to support that future, or if not it becomes a cycle path.

Given where the WSR is now I believe a simple change of one person or even one Board doesn’t cure the problem. Noel (@jnc) a few posts back said all need to see they are a part of the problem and @Flying Scotsman 123 above highlighted the cultural separation of the old guard warring with each other resulting in people now not being able to see ‘one railway’ only their own sides position (my interpretation of his words) Those are both insightful posts in my opinion.

Many internal WSR people reading this will know I have said to them for a long period now that the only problem the WSR has is its culture, fix that, support it with inclusive, good governance with a suitable structure and the rest is there to be unlocked: The people, money, opportunity and place in the community are there to be had. There in my opinion is a way forward for the WSR, it can have a positive future but time is running out and the more it goes on, the larger the necessary changes will be needed.

I hope I’m wrong in all this, I hope I am just the “wittering fool”, from the “chattering classes”, “who should shut up” because “I’m trying to close the WSR” (as quoted by people on here recently who have also been a part of moulding the WSR Culture into its current form). Only time will tell now, maybe there is a white knight about to come over the horizon and say “tad dah” look what we have been doing behind the scenes and all is now fixed, I sincerely hope that’s the case and I’m seen as the court jester, if it saves the WSR I’ll take that.

 

Indeed, if I had devoted 40 years to something I would find the risk of losing that difficult. There are difficult decisions to make. I can understand also that after 40 years someone might be defensive in the face of criticism of their organisation.

You can break things down into those who are reluctant to criticise and keeping your head down is understandable given the risks of speaking out. I can understand if people say 'I don't have a dog in this fight'. But on the other hand, there is a group of very strong supporters of the PLC who are happy to go out there and repeat the PLC's talking points and to defend the actions being taken. This I find strange to comprehend.

 

Pretty much. I guess what I was driving at is, yes there are two warring sides and that's not massively unusual in heritage railways, but what I think *is* odd is the lines that they're drawn down, i.e. pro or anti Plc, rather than pro or anti a particular board and their set of decisions. I think it makes it harder to move on once a particular matter has either been resolved or consigned to history one way or another, because people come and go, but the organisations people have held such hatred for (and on occasion I don't think that's too strong a word) or stuck by no matter what, still exist. In some ways it feels a bit like the Brexit argument, it's a deep, cultural divide, that transcends the actual specific arguments on membership of the EU.
I fear I may have made a terrible mistake here and combined the WSR and Brexit segments into one godawful thread - a thousand apologies mods!!

 

Plc is basically shorthand for the board and the decisions it makes - since the shareholders seem to have litle or no control over the board.