Recommissioning after Coronavirus

Actually there are two, namely the Ventnor West set which has a solitary first class compartment with the third class seating arranged around the walls. The width of the vehicles is quoted as 8ft. which gives a touch of spare room. The S.E.C.R. bogie composite, approaching the end of its major overhaul, has a small 3rd class saloon similarly arranged. Otherwise there is no saloon stock whatsoever and, thankfully, no Mk.1s.

 

Only one coach on the Bluebell with low compartments and it is still being overhauled.

Nominally, I think we could put out three short trains of side door compartment stock:

- The Mets: 228 seats
- The four four wheelers: 124 seats, 4 wheelchairs
- The SR livery pre-grouping set: 229 seats

Note however, that those seating capacities are the nominal numbers, for example based on ten per compartment in the third class carriages. In practice, that wouldn't maintain social distancing, so the actual capacity would be far lower. For example, based on a family of four per compartment, the SECR 100 seater actually becomes a 40 seater - and even that assumes optimum occupation. What happens if a single person turns up? That is one 10 seat compartment gone for one person; potentially as low as ten people in one carriage ...

So I don't think this would fly - and that is before you consider the fact that coaches need maintenance: we could put those three rakes out, but not continuously for months on end.

There is also the issue for us that a considerable part of our business is on dining trains, but again you need them to be well loaded to make commercial sense. The Pullman train seats 100, but running at a much reduced occupancy (say 40?) doesn't make sense.

To me - and I am sure finer minds than mine are trying to work through all of this - the business model is pretty marginal with full trains; I just can't see how it stacks up deliberately trying to run part-empty trains.

Tom

 

An inconvenient observation, but being shut in a compartment with a virus which can sit on surfaces, or float suspended in the air isn't going be any healthier than sitting in an open saloon 2 mtrs from an asymptomatic carrier.

Is 'deep cleaning', every time a compartment is vacated an even vaguely practical proposition? I seriously have my doubts.

 

And that is really the issue isn't Tom. As much as we would all like to see trains running again it has to be on a sustainable commercial basis. I do not see a market where the fares were increased by say 80% to cover all the empty seats being dragged around. Heritage Railways are always going to be marginal spend on a families budget, and with possibly high unemployment at the end of the crisis (whenever that may be) and probably higher taxes to try to recover some of the money that has been rightly thrown at it by governments the model ends up getting squeezed from both sides.
Glad I am not a Commercial Director (or whatever the title may be) on a Heritage Railway

 

The "no, no, noahs" do seem to be out in force on this thread.

 

You have a workable business model to share with us then?

 

Presumably it involves travelling back in time 50 years and buying up non-corridor compartment grounded coach bodies to restore.....

 

Regrettably, failing an effective vaccine, or at least some authoritative pronouncement concerning acquired immunity, we've little by way of meaningful guidance regarding what will or won't prove (a) acceptably safe and (b) practical.

Have you clocked the irony here, btw Paul? It's normally you taking me to task for discounting real world conditions. Stange days indeed (most peculiar, mama)!

 

No more than you would appear to have. Unless there is some glimmer of positivity around, one will never be devised.

The errors of omission do go back forty years or so.

Howard, I take your first paragraph almost in its entirety.

 

Of course, how foolish of early preservationists to not forsee that in in 2020 a deadly virus would be sweeping the planet and the only way heritage railways would be able to run would be if they bought up non-existent non-corridor carriages possibly unsuitable for most of those railways' operations in the intervening 40 years, restore them, and keep them for this very day!

 

They didn't do it because they thought the other way was easier.

 

Paul, I'm not having that argument with you again. Besides anything else, it's completely irrelevant to the point you are trying and failing to make, because the vast majority of pre-nationalisation coaches are corridor coaches, and many are even open coaches. The SVR has a fantastic array of pre-nationalisation coaching stock I'm sure you'd agree which is no better suited to allowing social distancing than a Mk1.
Even if railways could muster up enough non-corridor carriages, that still doesn't solve the problem of having to clean each compartment in between each different group using it, and the fact that if someone visited on their own, that's now a whole compartment taken up, reducing capacity potentially significantly.

You can't just come along and accuse us of all being negative without explaining why we're wrong and that there is a way forward.

 

We need to get real here, until this virus has cleared up 100 per cent, and the public feel its safe to be around other people, then i can't see how any railway can re open, in any limited form, because people won't have the confidence to visit , its probably going to be cheaper, less of a loss to not open at all until everyone can say, ok its safe now,
I know this will mean some lines may possibly go to the wall, the only hope here is that some form of assistance to pay their bills is forthcoming , i would say in all honesty i expect the there will not be any steam railways operating at all this year, and that it will be 2021 before things improve enough to return to life as it was.

 

Indeed, although this balance may change if the furlough scheme runs out before railways can reasonably be allowed to open. For the purposes of seeing when heritage railways will be able to open, watching what happens with pubs will be a good metric, and one that is being asked about a lot so easy to keep up on. They're in pretty much the same boat as us in terms of half-opening might be more expensive than not opening at all, and being a business purely for the pleasure of others. It's possible that the government may continue their furlough scheme longer for specific sectors like pubs, whilst it is withdrawn for lower risk sectors, and if so, heritage railways need to be ready to argue their case.

 

Because in the TR's case most compartments do not have a full height division between them, thus social distance is not maintained if adjacent apartments are in use.

 

I will reply privately

 

Not necessarily. Under the current arrangements for social distancing on buses, it is considered sufficient for people to space themselves out 2m apart. Buses are cleaned every night, with a special anti-virus treatment applied to all hard touch points. Seats are not cleaned between each passenger using one. They are not required to have upholstery shampooed each day for example. It all depends what requirements the government impose.

 

Fair dos, although the comparison is only useful to an extent as there is an element of compromise required for services that are necessary that you might not lower yourself to for luxuries like heritage railways.

 

More to the point we have little idea at present about the economic impact.

A better question might be to ask where the money for the tickets will be coming from.

 

The Isle of Man Steam Railway is probably the railway which, except for the diners, runs mainly carriages with floor to roof separate compartments, but the IoM is getting clear of Covid 19 and is not going to open the borders anytime soon.

Away from that I agree with Martin 1656, we are probably not going to see much running this year. It is all guess work what will happen but relaxation of the rules will probably be in steps, the first of which will be staff going back to work, volunteers may be included in that step. Being able to operate trains and open cafes will be latter step, with bars the step after that and even when we start the chances are there might be restrictions in numbers at first and be required to do more cleaning.

Even when we can start running we will have to worry about whether there are enough operating volunteers. The chances are there will still be a level of Covid 19 around so elderly volunteers may not be that enthusiastic in exposing themselves to the public and many railways rely on those are retired to fill rosters at times. Then will the public turn up? The retired are a significant demographic of those who travel for many railways and they may be cautious about traveling, although I accept that different railways have different models and at different times of year e.g Santa trains. Some railways have a high level of coach traffic, will that come back quickly?

There is also the issue that some railways may be in areas not particularly keen on visitors. If you are operating near a large towns or city it may be no issue. If the railway is in a rural area with a low number of cases the locals be may not be best pleased to see lots of visitors from towns and cities where they belief Covid 19 is still pretty rife.

It is going to be a long slow process but I think that the idea that we will be able to operate if we can put some sort of social distancing in place is pie in the sky unless the UK Govt decide to switch to a Swedish model.

It is all a bit depressing