clerestory roof coaching stock

Do any of the preserved lines use clerestory roofed vintage coaches fairly regularly? I know K&WVR has the 4 coach L&YR set and the Greasley teak set is used elsewhere but it seems its all mostly MK1 stock used everywhere and rarely any of the common steam era coaches these days. The L&NWR coaches once used on the mainline seem to have vanished as well as the plum painted set once pulled by Bahamas. I know MK1 are banned from the mainline but were they all scrapped once banned?

 

I cannot think of many, if any, clerestory-roofed carriageses in regular use, one reason being that clerestory roofs tend to be very prone to water leakage. That said, there are an increasing number of pre-Mk -carriages in use around the country, albeit not on the main line these days.

 

Mk1s are not banned from the mainline, in fact they make up the majority of the stock used on steam hauled trains

 

Welcome to Nat.Pres. The GWS at Didcot have a few clerestory coaches and at least one has been restored for occasional use by passengers on their short demonstration line. The West Somerset has a restored clerestory sleeping car which has been used to carry passengers. The Tanfield railway has several clerestory roofed vehicles but I don't think that any are restored yet. IIRC the vintage L&Y coaches on the KWVR are all flat or elliptical roofed ones. I don't think Gresley ever designed a clerestory roofed vehicle but the North Eastern Railway was a big user of clerestories and one runs with the restored NER petrol-electric railcar at Embsay. There are quite a few clerestory roofed inspection saloons around the country as are several royal saloons. The RHRC site http://www.cs.rhrp.org.uk/se/search.asp has a good search facility.
As mentioned above many of the railtour operators still use Mk1's on the mainline subject to an exemption and there are, literally, hundreds in use over virtually every U.K. heritage railway (except the Isle of Wight as they are 'out of gauge' there). Hope this helps.
Ray.

 

The GWS' restored example, 1941, has been in regular service during the past two or three years, and despite the short journey is worth sampling for the unique ride provided by the bogies! There are two other examples in the carriage shed which remain unrestored.

 

The GNR Directors’ Saloon is in regular public use at the Bluebell, generally running about once per month: when in public service, usage is - subject to capacity - available to first class ticket holders.

https://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/gnr_saloon.html

Tom

 

I should have said that the LNER Coach Association are well advanced with the restoration of 1894-built ECJS 189 which is a clerestory-roofed teak coach, one of the ealiest diners around and also one of the earliest to be fitted with corridor connections, although it was rebuilt in the early 1900s and Pullman gangways fitted. Hopefullyt it will see occasional use, but I can't see it running routinely.

 

I would be happier for the UK to have rather fewer Mk. 1s than it has and correspondingly more clerestories! Too late of course, or possibly not? In Maine, the 2ft. gauge Wiscasset, Waterville and Farmington is building a counterpart to its Jackson & Sharp clerestory including making patterns to cast the seat frames from. Judging from pictures seen, Jackson & Sharp would have been very happy with the work.

 

Thanks for the replies. It is my understanding the current mainline fleet is MK3 which is air braked and hence why all the mainline locos now have the additional air brake system ie the steam air pumps which were added ohh maybe a decade ago or so now. Also the MK1 where deemed less crash resistant and hence the ban unless network rail changed its decision years ago regarding their old coach ban. Yes on preserved railways you do find almost all MK1 stock as it was available in the plenty as they went from a Stanier design to BR standard coach after nationalization and made for many years. All are better imo to today's airline/bus style seating coaches used by the privatized franchises. Traditional British coaching stock seating either with a compartment or not was superior.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

 

I believe Mk1 coaches have to have a barrier vehicle but they do make up the majority of main line steam stock. The braking system depends on the train operating company; Vintage Trains and West Coast are vacuum, Saphos and DBC are air. I’m sure the entire West Coast fleet of locomotives are vacuum braked only as is the NRMs Britannia, Oliver Cromwell. Probably the most complicated braking arrangement is on Merchant Navy Class Pacific 35028 Clan Line, it retains the steam days configuration of air braked loco, vacuum braked tender but as it works with DBC it has an air pump hidden in the tender for the train brake.
This is Great Britain, we never make anything simple!!

 

@Johnb has said most of it, but just to expand a little, Mk1s do make up most of the mainline steam charter fleet, but they can be air or vacuum braked, or both. So some steam locos have been fitted with air pumps still to haul Mk1 stock, but air-braked. I've a vague recollection that even the barrier vehicle rule has been relaxed now and you can have complete trains of only Mk1s on the mainline should you wish, but I'm not certain on that point.

 

And just to add to the complications, I believe Mk 1s are limited to 75mph when steam hauled, but can travel at 100mph when hauled by classic (or modern?) diesel or electric traction.

And more directly related to the original query, whilst, as others have said Mk 1s are permitted on the mainline, there are restrictions, such as having a steward in each carriage and I think having some form of door locking - even if just a manually operated bolt?

 

There aren't that many surviving clerestory roof coaches because most British railways stopped making them around 1900 and switched to building coaches with normal rounded roofs. The midland railway did continue building them until about 1914, which means most were scrapped circa 1930s onwards or converted to other uses, before preservation really started. Those that do survive tend to be either special Royal coaches, or ones that became a departmental vehicle for example in a breakdown train, a camping coach or something similar so only odd ones have survived and they tend to be kept mostly in museums and not run regularly, if at all.

Coach bodies were often sold off by railway companies to become holiday homes or cheap housing and some of these bodies have been rescued and put on another available chassis which typically is not the same as the original chassis.

I did have a ride in one at Didcot railway centre last year and apparently it will be used more in future. See a video here of it

 

They are limited to 75 mph when steam hauled because that is the limit of the locos not the coaches. Similarly they are limited to 60mph on the S&C line because that is the line limit.

Peter

 

I thought this 75mph limit was 'discovered' when Tornado ran (briefly!) at 90, and they had to use Mk 2s or Mk 3s because of the steam limit on Mk 1s?

 

I don't think that (at the moment) there are any Mk 3 coaches used on steam hauled excursion trains, although I believe that the set that is planned to be operated by the A1SLT with 60163 and 2007 will be Mk 3 based. Not all steam locos on the main line have had air pumps added, either, with West Coast (and Tyseley, I think) still operating vacuum braked Mk 1 stock.

 

I doubt it as Tornado as Tornado's support coach is a Mk 1. And I just checked a video of Bittern's 90mph run and a full rake of Mk 1s were used for that.

Peter

 

Thanks. I must have misremembered.

Sorry for any confusion caused.

 

This is what I was thinking of...

Ebor Flyer - A1ST and Tornado: 14/04/18

 

Tornado's Support coach was in the consist when it hit 100mph 'on test'... Commonwealth bogies are fitted...