Bluebell Railway General Discussion

Perhaps, but if you extend the literalism just a little, you get the argument for Ivatts on the which point a great deal else becomes reasonable.

And as there are published pictures of Leader on Bluebell metals, I suspect it’s not a weight issue either.


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Not sure we are getting away with it. It is the line's heritage as a single track secondary mainline/through route which it was prior to electrification to Alton in 1937. It remained busy at times with diversions and relief trains there after as well though.

I assume you mean that at many heritage railways larger locomotives are operated than did pre-preservation, and I agree that is the case

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Bulleid Pacifics ran over the Bluebell in pre-preservation days.

(There was also a daily working over the adjacent Cuckoo line that involved a Bulleid pacific working tender first on a two coach train - prototype for everything, eh!)

In any case, I think in your desire to bring the conversation round to Mark 1s, you have ignored the original point being made, which was about the focus on four wheelers meaning pre-grouping bogie carriages had been put back in the overhaul queue. My own view is that if authenticity is what is being sought, the Birdcage set is of far greater importance than the four wheelers.

Tom

 

The S.E.C.R. bogie vehicles are certainly excellent to ride in. Let's wait and see how often the set actually gets used as opposed to the dreaded Mk.**.

 

The Ivatts, tank and tender version are Class 2, not 6 or 7 and are not oversized for their function.

 

A "mixed rake of Bulleids and Mk1s hauled by a light pacific" might not be authentic on a branchline, but perhaps more authentic on a through line used for occasional diversions. And anyway "a hodge-podge of 4 wheel carriages from different railways strung together hauled by an SECR loco on a LBSCR line" would be even less authentic.

 

Weight restrictions did occasionally get waived. Schools class Cranleigh was permitted to traverse part of the Horsham to Guildford line (admittedly a 'one off') to allow the naming ceremony to be conducted in the appropriate place.

 

A format that makes a document on screen pretend to be a book or newspaper, with turning pages, is a PITA. Please no! But HTML may be worth consideration because of the possibility of automatically formatting differently for different hardware (or at least between "mobile" and "desktop").

 

"Simples" The carriages get painted in early S.R. livery with an appropriate locomotive similarly adorned. Less weight to lug around and more authentic.

 

The West Countries, in original form, worked many local services in Devon and Cornwall between mainline turns. There are loads of photos of 'em on short trains ..... sometimes even (and whisper it quietly) running tender first.

 

Quite. The overhaul/ rebuild of 949, the Stroudley brake 3rd, is now in its 16th year. Work on this carriage has never actually been stopped for any length of time.
Is this a record?

 

The theory appeals, though the reality is that certain vehicles, and I'm thinking more about locomotives here, have covenants which preclude this. A pity, esp. with the H class, which were seen as a classic Wealden branch locomotive from the 20s, right up to their demise.
Personally, the H, or E4 plus Birdcage set and either a "swinger" or a milk van is the quintessential Sussex branch/ secondary line train.

 

I agree, they are entirely practical and a plausible might have been. But they are no less ahistorical than some of the things you are complaining about elsewhere.

If you are going to argue about historical accuracy, that is fine. Likewise if you are going to debate the economy of operation. But please spare us the elision of both arguments when your preferred case studies demonstrate that the arguments don’t necessarily align, and that you’re actually just arguing that your ideal preserved railway is short, using small engines hauling pre Mk1 stock.

St a Paul had something to say about specks in other’s eyes and the more in one’s own.


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Oh dear Paul! Perfectly authentic on the Bluebell and Swanage of course, very definitely a branchline, as well as the MHR. Also seen on many other branchlines in real days in the West Country. Hence the term "light pacific".

Oh dear again! A quick perusal suggests only one of the Bluebell's operational four-wheelers actually survived more than a year or two into SR ownership, so not very authentic at all.

 

As far as I am aware, there is only one operational Stroudley carriage in the country (661, the 1st), and the Bluebell is the only railway restoring any others. I suspect the length of time taken over 949 shows why! My understanding is that typically the wood used has not stood up well to decades as houses, chicken sheds etc; and the shape of them (with many subtle curves) makes replacement a highly arduous and skilled task. By contrast, the LCDR carriages with lots of straight edges and built out of robust teak are a rather simpler proposition, hence the completion of three of them on the Bluebell in the time while 949 has been in the workshop.

The "as recovered" pictures of 949 in comparison to the three Chatham carriages are instructive:

https://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/pics/coach949.html (top photo)

https://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/pic2/106/recovery.html
https://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/pic2/lcdr/51.html (Middle photo)
https://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/pic2/lcdr/668.html (Bottom photos)

The LCDR carriages were recovered in substantially sound structural condition. The LBSCR one has had a massive amount of replacement.

Tom

 

LCDR coaches do seem to manage to survive better than Brighton, or Metro coaches, At the KESR, we had to replace virtually on whole side of the met coach, where as one of the Chatham's, needed only new sections spliced in, because they used a better quality of wood in the construction , i would love to see the Bluebell's and KESR SE&CR 4 wheelers, plus the family saloon ,together on the bluebell , running with the 01, ,or C , handing over the H, with an P piloting the H, As part of the anniversary celebrations, when it can happen,

 

The Bulleid worked the early morning newspaper train to Eastbourne and before returning to Stewart's Lane, had a fill-in turn to Hailsham and back consisting of two coaches. With there being no turntable at Hailsham, the train would have to be tender first in one direction. I'm not aware of regular workings of Bulleids north of Hailsham, but they did work the odd special, with poor old 34073, currently in need of some serious TLC at Carnforth. being one of the locos recorded working the line.

 

One of these vehicles known to me acquired a thatched roof prior to forty years service as a summer house. On "rescue" it was found to be in remarkable condition, with much of the original furniture surviving and gets used from time to time as its railway's Royal Saloon!

If timber of this quality were easily available, no-one would use anything else. However the harvesting of teak is strictly controlled and the price astonishing as a result. Mild steel and MDF anybody?

 

34027 is also recorded over the Cuckoo Line working one of the services you mention.

There are 2 pictures of the loco at Polegate in Taw Valley From Dream to Steam. The first is the loco hauling a 2 coach morning service between Eastbourne and Hailsham. The second is the loco working the return service shortly afterwards.