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West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by gwr4090, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. Wriggley

    Wriggley New Member

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    Of course it's about what you and I think. And the 526 people or whatever the number was who signed the petition. And the hundreds of disaffected staff and volunteers. The railway is its people. What they think is the most fundamentally important factor in the success or otherwise of the business.

    Ok so what could you do? Well how about stop publishing PLC press statements? That would be a small act of defiance, given that your website, above all else, is the most widely respected conduit for news concerning the WSR - head and shoulders above the official WSR website! They would then have to put far more effort into communication for themselves. It might focus their minds.

    Interestingly, I notice that you never published a link to the 'George White' petition. Given it was initiated by WSR volunteers, could you explain why it received zero coverage on your website please?

    Then you could write to Cllr Rigby to express your views, which I'm sure you have done.
    Maybe stand for election to the WSRA or WSST boards (assuming you are a member).
    Use your influence to express support for the S&DRT on your website.
    I could go on.
    You very definitely have the means!
     
  2. Greenway

    Greenway Part of the furniture

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    Steve,

    You are the one who wanted an answer - you have got one. It it now up to you, if you want to - to progress with it. Not an easy task, I know, but that is how it is at present. I note your location is now Somerset, so maybe there are supporters who would take on some of the workload. And as Wriggley suggests your web site could be more critical of things instead of publishing what has often been seen as misinformation by the PLC.
     
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  3. Wriggley

    Wriggley New Member

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    What is it with this mindset that seems to agree the PLC board is pretty much useless and driving the railway straight towards the rocks but at the same time seems to find comfort in the fact that the ship at least has a crew, they're wearing a nice uniform and anyway, they're the only show in town so now is not the time to change them. This 'logic' really baffles me. It's almost like Stockholm syndrome.

    Who would replace them? Well you won't know that until you actually have a culture of trust and mutual respect, a leadership which is trusted rather than feared, and an open and honest selection process featuring a selection panel which is fully representative of the entire railway family - as has been mooted in the past but never followed through with.

    It's not difficult.
     
  4. RichardBrum

    RichardBrum Member

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    Something that is immediately achievable, is velocity.

    The three WSR orgs had the Bailey Report at the end of May. It took until the end of June to issue relatively simple statements.
    There is no reason whatsoever that the WSRA & WSSRT could not have got together, & formulated a new structure for themselves, & proposed it to their memberships. That proposal could be with their members right now, with a voting deadline at the end of July.



    You 'out' them.

    As above, ask the WSRA & WSSRT what their proposal is, & what they've done about it.
    If they tell you that they haven't yet met to discuss it, then that is news & can be made public.
    If they make any statement about 'the plc has to be/should be involved', then make that public. The plc has zero say in what the charities do.



    -----
    The advantages of ONE supporting charity are obvious; better access to funding pots, admin savings, one voice, etc etc
    But you can only have those advantages if the change is made.
    Some of those advantages won't appear till later, eg savings & some funding would be 2021, but if the WSR family just carry on having their own monthly/bi-monthly meetings & doing nothing for the next 6 months, then those advantages move back to 2022.

    No, coronavirus isn't an excuse to wait. No-one knows when it will be over, so no-one can say when the waiting would be over.
     
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  5. RichardBrum

    RichardBrum Member

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    Michael, you stated on Saturday;
    "... my memory is quite clear that, with respect to SCC approval wrt the WSR Plc
    issuing inter alia sub leases, Professor Irven secured a relaxation such that
    sub leases could be up to 25 years duration.

    The above quotation which began"Fortunately, SCC have agreed "is carefully written
    I think you will find the catch all "offer licenses, leases and MOUs" was exactly that
    ie you can have a MOU for 71 years, a lease for 25 etc. "

    https://www.national-preservation.c...lway-operations.508987/page-1359#post-2586126


    To which I asked;
    "Yet the plc issued 2 leases of 50 years, one in 2017 & one in 2018.
    So, either the plc has the powers to issue 50 year leases
    or
    those that issued them are not competent & should not be anywhere near a Board of Directors

    Which is it?"

    https://www.national-preservation.c...lway-operations.508987/page-1362#post-2586529


    Are you going to answer?



    "Reorganisation is for the future..."
    When is this 'future'?


    "There are not any persons with the required 'nous' that I can see"
    What 'nous' is that? Do the current Board have it?
     
  6. Maunsell907

    Maunsell907 Member

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    Whilst replying is probably counterproductive!

    I am not bonding with an aggressor.

    I am simply being pragmatic. As I have said before the 'Motherhood and Apple Pie' can
    come later.

    If you think you can help; support the Plc. Do not forget if you want to change something it's
    more likely to succeed if you are inside the tent. ( Raining 'sh one t' from above seldom works )


    Michael Rowe
     
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  7. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    In answer to steve's question, what can be changed now, the answer is Nothing, and here's why, Change can only come when the people in charge are minded to do so,
    Yes they can be pressured, but only if they are listening to what people are saying, if they have retreated to their bunker, and reacting in a way that says, no we are in charge, we know best, your all cuckoo's, etc, then only when someone bigger ie the Shareholders, and creditors, Banks etc step in, and blow their bunker clean open, evict the occupants, then can change happen,
    My view is that, the board of the WSR, have backed themselves into a corner of their own making, and will not back down, ego's overruling sence, and its going to take the potential loss of the line before power is grasped out of their hands.
    Most likily change will only come after the total collapse of the present structures, and will be started by the S&D trust taking the board to court, having been left with no other option, and winning, and bankrupting the company, and because the PLC has handed everything to the banks in security for loans, everything will be lost, the fools in charge will have no where to go, and the enablers also should then have to account for their actions in allowing this to happen in the first place, hopefully, the council owning the track bed should at least enable a short section to be saved
    i know it sounds stark, and defeatist, but given the prevailing attitudes with in the whole WSR structures, both the PLC, and charities, this is the most likily outcome.
     
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  8. Keith Sims

    Keith Sims Member

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    As a trained Pesticide Application Instructor I must disagree!
    The only place where no rules apply is in private gardens, on the railway would be considered a "public place" and qualifications and PPE are required.
    This is essential for personal and public safety as well as prevention of damage to the sensitive wildlife environment. PLEASE, PLEASE DO NOT BE TEMPTED TO BREAK RULES WHICH HAVE BEEN CONSTRUCTED FOR THE SAFETY OF EVERYONE.
    It is a similar situation to driving diggers etc, even railway engines, for the safety of everyone please obey the rules.
    Incidentally the stuff an amateur can buy over the counter is often very dilute and VERY expensive for large scale use
    Keith Sims BSc Horticulture registered pesticide instructor.
     
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  9. Snifter

    Snifter Well-Known Member

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    Please be helpful and correct any misinformation that you think has been posted. It was facts that freed us from the 6+1, even when familiar voices were urging us all to back the only game in town.
     
  10. Keith Sims

    Keith Sims Member

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    Health and Safety at work regulations are very sensible the major problem is that most people see them as mindless box ticking exercises. THEY WERE PUT THERE FOR YOUR AND OTHER PEOPLES SAFETY. IF YOU FOLL THE RULES THEN YOU AND OTHERS WILL BE SAFE.
    THE BASIC CONCEPT OT H&S REGULATIONS IS dONT PUT YOURSELF OR OTHERS AT RISK AT WORK.
    SIMPLE TO FOLLOW?
    KEITH SIMS BSC HORTICULTURE REGISTERED PESTICIDES INSTRUCTOR
     
  11. Keith Sims

    Keith Sims Member

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    Dead right! see above replies
    Keith
     
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  12. RichardBrum

    RichardBrum Member

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    This question?

    Nopes

    That was September 2018

    Two members of the plc board at that time had only just stopped being Trustees of a charity which is also a large shareholder, Companies House shows that as being 10 days before the plc 'agreed' to get rid of the Chair.
    One member was also a Trustee of a charity which is also a large shareholder.


    This shows that there are not good enough safeguards in place to prevent what has happened;
    one person got themselves onto the board without a shareholder vote, they also then got to be Chair,
    they have then remade the Board as they see fit
    the tiny board (approx 3 members) made major decisions with no shareholder or stakeholder input; selling a loco, borrowing against a loco, S&DRT eviction notice
     
  13. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    Michael - which part of my post which you chose to quote are innuendo, Misinformation and snide please

    all the above are available on the WSR network of websites or through the local press .


    why would anyone wish to board a ship that , many can see is heading for its iceberg moment and that without change will hit its iceberg
     
  14. ghost

    ghost Part of the furniture

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    Ask them? Put forward a challenge to them on your website? As I mentioned in my post, there has to be a will to change things. If you have to convince them to talk to each other, then nothing will ever change and it would be quite apparent that they do not want to change.
    @Eightpot's answer covers this, but I was not suggesting that you contact the shareholders. I meant that if there was genuine desire for change from the 3 main protagonists then they could be making contact right now so that they had an up to date mailing list ready to go when they had a proposal for the shareholders to vote on.
    I don't understand why you would need to? The PLC has said it is committed to change as per the Bailey report. However, surely any shareholder can make a proposal for discussion at an AGM?
    Again I wasn't suggesting that you could do this personally, but as others have suggested, you could use your website to show how other railways are getting back to work, perhaps show some of the PW work still outstanding and the maintenance needing to be done. Basically embarrass the plc into action. If the PLC was actually working properly then they wouldn't need to be prompted...

    Keith
     
  15. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Well for starters withdraw the notice to quit regarding a group at Washford?
     
  16. Steve Edge

    Steve Edge Member

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    That is something only the Plc can do. Not for the likes of a WSR supporter.

    Steve
     
  17. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    And that sums up my point, only the PLC can enact the changes, if they can't, or won't, then things have to be allowed to happen, sometimes empires fall. it happens, organisations that are blind and make stupid decisions tend to not do well long term.
     
  18. Steve Edge

    Steve Edge Member

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    Oh I've tried many times, Keith, to get them to agree to change.

    Yep, I'd hope someone would read this exchange and leap forward to get that list and communicate with the shareholders. But we can't make them do that.

    Any shareholder can propose a motion for discussion and vote at a GM but that proposal does not have to accepted by the Plc. Unless already supported by the requried % of shareholders, hence the need to communicate with em.

    On the matter of getting vols out doing stuff, I don't think it is possible to embarrass the Plc ;)

    Generally wsr.org.uk works with people rather than against them. I've stuck to that for 20+ years. I'm no Scargill, I prefer discussion and persuasion.

    Steve
     
  19. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    While I am not convinced by your stance on change, I will agree on the role of the wsr.org.uk as a trusted neutral source, as I recall during the X6 ructions.
     
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  20. Steve Edge

    Steve Edge Member

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    No, I'm not in Somerset. Just a wish. Misinformation, eh? ;)

    Not interested in using wsr.org.uk to criticise. Much prefer to publish stuff from others. Then folks can make their own minds up.

    There might be other ways...

    Steve
     
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