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West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by gwr4090, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    Driverless trains are the future of the railways. I am sure those moving with the times look forward to their railways adopting this.

    The WSR has already embraced driverless trains. In fact, it has gone one step further and gone for the trainless railway.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2020
  2. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Thought that was called TOPS?
     
  3. Romsey

    Romsey Part of the furniture

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    When TOPS was devised by Union Pacific in the late 1960's early 1970's it was purely a computerised way of monitoring what locos and wagons were on trains and where they were located when not moving. All the data collection and inputting was manual.
    The early years of TOPS in the UK wasn't much different, I know I did both data collecting (numbertaking) and inputs to the computer.
    It did prove a hitherto unknown level of information on how and why the railway ran (or didn't) and provided actual information to customers. Instead of telling a farm wholesaler his wagons of fertilizer left Avonmouth overnight, we could say there were on a train between Reading and Eastleigh and would be in position for unloading late tomorrow morning.

    The TOPS database for schedules has been expanded to become the master timetable system which underpins train describers, automatic route setting and to a degree passenger information systems. The checking of wagon numbers is still done by some poor ****** in the rain walking with a clipboard.....

    Automatic collection of vehicle numbers has been tried a few times and I think the Canadian Pacific scheme with bar codes has been mentioned on here before. That was OK until they got dirty then someone had to check the length of a 150 wagon set for the missing numbers....

    Passenger rolling stock reporting on TOPS uses links between TOPS and TOC records and allocations.

    Cheers, Neil
     
  4. Romsey

    Romsey Part of the furniture

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    PS The use of electronic devices is contentious in driving cabs.
    Mobile phones are BANNED, even for visitors. To ring control most drivers will stand in the cab doorway to be seen to be stopped and remote from the controls while using a phone.
    Some companies provide tablets to train crews which download workings for the day and late notice restrictions, just like the "late notice" case in the drivers lobby years ago.

    Many more modern units have electronic fault diagnosis systems which sends wifi reports to maintenance controllers.

    HOPS provide all sorts of software for heritage railway management.
    https://www.heritage-ops.org.uk/

    Neil
     
  5. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Cheers Neil, as ever every days a school day on Nat Pres
     
  6. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    I get the sense that, not for the first time, people are being a bit absolutist in this issue of pre-booking online, being either very pro- or very anti-. Pre-booking and walk-up should be able to co-exist, at least once Covid is over.

    Firstly, we should distinguish what is happening now, when pre-booking is pretty well obligatory; and what will be the situation when (hopefully) virus precautions will no longer be required.

    Secondly, @35B noted earlier the point about public bodies considering the issue of digital exclusion. I was there, and remember those times well - fifteen years ago. But times change: I would never have imagined at that time that fifteen years later my 90 year old father would be sending me picture messages using WhatsApp. The point is, technology changes, and people's willingness to use it. That isn't to say those not able to use online booking should be forgotten, but neither should railways get stuck in a stance of "we have always done it this way". If every other tourist attraction allows online booking ...

    Hopefully, when things return to normal, railways will continue to support both online booking and walk-up passengers. Certainly the current online-only model must be hitting some walk-up trade; I suspect smaller attractions are particularly hard hit, the kinds of place you might drop-in on the spur of the moment. Where pre-booking comes into its own is the ability to upsell; for example, add a guidebook to the shopping basket; or a pre-packed meal (ploughman's or cream tea according to time and taste). Those kinds of thing can be organised much easier in advance and potentially have a good profit margin.

    Here's a hostage to fortune: In five years, I predict:

    - Overt differential pricing will be commonplace on some lines (either by day, or time of day, or both)
    - Day rovers will still widely exist, but will have a premium over a single round trip ticket, particularly on longer lines
    - Turn-up-and-go will still exist, but be more expensive than pre-booking online.
    - Edmondson tickets will still exist, but will be largely ceremonial, rather than an integral part of the accountancy process.

    Tom
     
  7. Hampshire Unit

    Hampshire Unit Well-Known Member Friend

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    Can a Moderator intervene and ban Tom please? He talks far too much sense for Nat Pres!;)
    I think your predictions look pretty sensible Tom
     
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  8. Dunfanaghy Road

    Dunfanaghy Road Well-Known Member

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    Automatic vehicle recognition is the norm in North America, using transponders mounted on each side of the vehicle (locos and wagons). They were also fitted to the NP 59s and may still be there - a shallow block about 4 inches long, 2 inches deep and 1/2 inch thick with sloping ends.
    Our MGR trains had a system using a transponder mounted under the wagon - all ancient history now. Yes, it's back to the bit of paper and Mark 1 Standard Eyeball! European railway Agency has a standard for something similar, but no-one will spend the money. Astonishing! Never heard that one before :D.
    Judging by some of the requests for info from people at Doncaster, TOPS skills were diminishing rapidly. Their inability to do pool enquiries was maddening. Such a shame, but comments about its age showed a certain bias in favour of inferior, but Windows, alternatives. (If only they realised that the banks' systems are just as old! They'd never touch an ATM again.)
    Oh dear, I've gone off on one again.
    Pat
     
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  9. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    I can think of a few who should be made to stand in the corner :)
     
  10. LC2

    LC2 Member

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    Ain't that the truth...
    Mind you, there is nothing wrong with old IBM iron. It does the job...
     
  11. 242A1

    242A1 Well-Known Member

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    It was at BL and some of the station staff made it quite clear. 53808 was not GW and shouldn't have been working the train.
     
  12. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    well then they have now got their wish, instead there will be a rail substitution bus in the station forecourt
     
  13. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    One issue with this - digital exclusion still exists, and will continue to do so for a very long time. Some of it is to do with oldies (I think of my 77 year old father’s inability through unwillingness to grapple with smartphones or tablets), some poverty (think library access to the Internet during lockdown), but mostly careless assumptions by the technologically literate about how the world works “in the wild”.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  14. Ian Monkton

    Ian Monkton Member

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    Just in case there is any doubt, the views of a small number of station staff at BL do not represent the views of the vast majority of WSR volunteers.
     
  15. Blackdown Boy

    Blackdown Boy New Member

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    I beg to differ, although they probably fulfill a level of railway knowledge required for safety purposes, they are still naive when it comes to railway matters. Some only have knowledge of railways at a Thomas level. It really is a later in life hobby and this should be borne in mind when they are expected to meet the public and answer questions. We can all be caught out, even us life long railway enthusiasts.
     
  16. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    That was clear from the outpourings on a normally "management-friendly" Facebook group when the announcement was made. But it would be unfortunate if that small minority of station staff views also happened to chime with management thinking.
     
  17. An important update to WSR Plc's planned consultation on Bailey restructuring proposals can now be accessed via the wsr.org.uk news page.

    It rambles on a bit and could have been written rather better, but is nonetheless a must read.

    Partnership Development Group appears to have been renamed Partnership Delivery Group!
     
  18. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

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    Why I wonder is the cost so high?
     
  19. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    Whilst it is good to see that the Plc Board is apparently planning at last to 'grasp the nettle' and do something about restructuring, I rather get the impression that the Plc seems to think that *it* will run the process with the PDG in some form of supporting role to agree any proposals.

    IMHO what ought to be the case is that the Plc is simply one of a number of 'partner' groups, with the restructuring process being led by the PDG (as the embodiment of the 'one railway' grouping).
     
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  20. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I agree. The Plc is part of the problem, so it must be part of the solution, but not the whole of it, it could risk undermining the whole thing. The Plc board should reflect on exactly why change is needed so badly, and whether the way they seem to be going about doing this re-enforces that view or not.

    It is also a little confusing as to whether The Plc has decided on following Bailey's recommendations to the letter or not. On the one hand there is some placating words about consultation, on the other further talks with John Bailey about how to proceed along NYMR lines, and outlining the cost of TUPE and transfer of Plc assets! None of that may be necessary depending on what the eventual decision is on the way forward. It seems a perfectly possible scenario that the new structure is built around the existing Plc, perhaps with a new charity simply assuming control of it by acquiring shares, partly from the merging or rebirth of existing charities. There could be other suitable ways too.

    It would perhaps be beneficial to look beyond what the NYMR does and look at some other structures too to see their advantages and disadvantages. Someone like @Robin Coombes would I'm sure make an excellent study of the pros and cons of the various models out there. This to me is the drawback of having the Bailey recommendations "tacked on" to a report on something else, it doesn't feel like the issue has been as widely considered as it might have otherwise been if a report had been issued specifically on the subject.
     

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