West Somerset Railway General Discussion

It is also worth remembering that those you( 6960) support, have only themselves to blame for the negativity, and that at least unlike your friends Facebook pages, we welcome discussion , we don't close it down, and ban dissenting voices, unless they break forum rules of course, the thread is truthful, there is a lack of operational activity at the moment where the WSR is concerned, the only activity soon to be found will be at Washford , removing the stock of the S&DJRT to the MHR.

 

I think JB Snell, then manager of the RHDR was one of the first to predict this in the early 70's, before the WSR project even started. At the time, railway preservation had been going for 25 years, and was going from strength to strength. The view at the time was that the advent of foreign package holidays would take away a lot of holiday makers as a source of income. Otherwise, saturation of a finite market, limited volunteers, and increasing apathy would eventually bring about the failure of one or more heritage railways, until the industry found a point where it could balance supply with demand.
This failure was likely to occur due to loss of trade and income, despite the best efforts of management and volunteers- just like any other business.
This however, is not the scenario in Somerset. There are lots of dedicated volunteers who have for 40 years worked determinedly to bring life to their railway. There is a burgeoning tourist industry in the area, bringing in holidaymakers from throughout Britain and much further afield. The day-tripper and enthusiast markets remain strong. There is not a "rival" railway taking away potential riders.
If the WSR fails, it is not for the business reasons that were predicted by "people"

 

I was wondering if the PLC would be able to afford to do that, in its current reported very cash-strapped state (ironically, supposedly the cause of the whole SDRT thing originally blowing up). Also, ISTR that at least one set of points was reportedly an SDR relic, and they might want to take that with them. The generic stuff they would I assume want to sell off, both to raise cash to fund the move, and also to reduce the amount (and thus cost) of things they have to move.

Speaking of points, at least with the current shutdown it should be easy to schedule an engineering possession to remove the point which leads from the line into the yard there. Ill winds and all that.

Noel

 

You (plural, not just @martin1656) say that you welcome discussion and don't ban dissenting voices, but, as a WSR volunteer I feel that if I were to post anything which does not agree with the dozen or so regular posters here, I would be subject to a barrage of demanding questions and made to feel unwelcome to the extent I would feel obliged to leave simply because I might not have the same views as most of you. I might even get called an idiot as a previous poster was some weeks ago. Therefore, I have made no contributions to this forum which would be interpreted as an opinion.
Can I ask at this point why there have not been pages and pages of comments on the relevant threads about why the South Devon and Bodmin railways are not running? As there appears to be none, I will assume that all of you are quite happy with the fact that they are not running.

 

JB Snell wasn't the only one, the SVR General Manager was another, and there have been other failures, in some cases more than once! (The Weardale for instance, though it now has a third chance) The WSR has been steadily losing custom over the last few years, actually that is the root cause of the mess it now finds itself in. The estimated loss of revenue by my quick and dirty calculation is that the fall in fare revenue has been around £0.5M/yr, roughly what should have been spent on track renewal, quite apart from any capital works, but I think the problem goes deeper than that because the WSR cannot access capital in the same way as other lines. The only substantial new works that I have seen over the years have been the turntable and turning triangle at NF, neither of which are of significant benefit to the railway in the same way that a carriage shed, for example, would be. This is in stark contrast to other lines. The NYMR, for example, manages to spend around £0.5M or more on track every year and has secured approaching £20M in the last 10 years or so for various improvements (Pickering Station Roof, Bridge 30, Whitby Platform 2, Yorkshires Magnificent journey).

The suggestion has been made that the WSR might be able to run a "Train of Lights" type o operation to try to bring in some xmas revenue, but that would require investment in the equipment needed, and where is the money to make that investment. I think that at the moment theywould struggle to stock up on xmas presents for santa specials.

 

Surely they must have funds set aside, given they apparently need the S&D Trust out urgently in order to use the site for their own (p way?) purposes, which would need track and a connection.

 

That is just Whataboutery.

If you want to discuss the SDR, Bodmin etc there are threads for those lines. Noone is stopping you, so knock yourself out. As i distinctly recall the last person to talk about the SDR was a WSSRT trustee who started taking cheapshots at the SDR.

It is ironic that WSR volunteers are happy to take potshots at other lines but cry to the hills claiming that they are being victimised when their actions come under scrutiny.

Plus, the WSR are always claiming to be premier league, well with that comes scrutiny. People will analyse every action at a premier league club, no one cares about what happens at Weston-super-Mare AFC because they are small fry.

So make up your mind, either you are a big fish and so accept a higher level of scrutiny, or accept that you are not and no one should care if the WSR survives or fails.

So where was your support for the SDRT and their volunteers during the eviction? Or what about your support for the volunteers who have been exiled for being critical?

 

The cost of a Train of Lights would be depend on what was planned. Just the train? Or similar to the DSR with stations and lineside features?
The DSR top and tail with a steam loco and diesel as generator (Class 37 I think). LED strip lights are not that expensive, although a train full might be far more than a household might buy. Does the DEPG have a diesel suitable? I am sure they and other groups would assist with the costs.
I am also sure the DSR would offer advice, if they have already not been asked to do so. One fact not often mentioned is that some heritage line GM's do know each other and meet (pre Covid) on occasions.

 

I think that the lineside features were an important aspect of the DSR's "Train of Lights" (after all, what else can you see once sat in the train?) and last year they upped the quantity after some adverse comments about the quantity of them the first year. I don't believe, either, that their class 37 acted as a generator for the lights, power being supplied by a separate generator, with additional examples on the lineside. Lastly, I think that the operation is a bit more sophisticated than casual observers believe - If I understand correctly the lights are all controlled by a GPS- based program - others probably know more - so I think that my comment on costs probably holds.

 

It does seem a little silly - while I agree that mods should be allowed an opinion, I’m not sure that the forum (as an entity) should show what appears to be a degree of partiality. After all, even in normal times, most lines stop operating for several months each year - renaming all the threads could be a significant task ...

There is also the important point that while there is criticism of the “friends” Facebook group as being very one-sided and allowing no dissent, you don’t want NP to have the same reputation on the other side. Thankfully bans from NP are rare, but a few notable posters who might provide a counter view seem to have drifted away. For my own point of view, while I have an opinion on matters west of Taunton, I’d still like to hear both sides of the argument; making NP seem as if it has a “side” doesn’t encourage that other side of the argument to be heard - IMHO.

Tom

 

At least people are thinking outside of the box and making best use of what is available, , hopefully the costs stack up, ad the revenue these special trains generate will pay for the costs involved and possibly turn a profit,
Getting back to Ian Monkton's post, the reason the WSR gets a lot of attention, rather than other lines, is because it keeps on making headlines, mostly negative ones, usually mistake upon mistake, So people will chat about it, if you want all this to go away, then get your house in order, , its as simple as that, don't make the headlines, then people won't react to them.

 

I think that is probably true, particularly if the system is indeed more sophisticated than hanging strings of lights on the trains, but whoever is providing the lights has their costs to recover and I would expect them to want to recover their investment over a reasonably short space of time. The opportunities for year-round use would be very limited!

 

Have you just not proved Mr Monkton ' s point here? Surely there are better ways to engage with somebody prepared to put his head above the parapet a little, in order to try to see things from the generally supportive volunteers point of view?

 

certainly not much use over the spring and summer, but when the nights start to close in, and traditionally railways are quite, that might be a time to try something out of the ordinary ,i would imagine Halloween certainly would be enhanced by these sort of lights and special effects, the ghost train, anyone? with suitable made up crew lights and sounds,

 

I was under the impression that the change of locos with the SDR (Cl.37 > < Cl.25) was for the T of L purpose. If course as Truly might say "he could be lying"!

 

And when did he see things from the point of view of an SDRT volunteeer or supporter?

His engagement is what? To engage in whataboutery?

If your line's senior managers keep on doing stupid things then you are going to get scrutiny, if you stand around while others get screwed over then you can't complain when you get criticised.

Bottomline, WSR volunteers get criticised on the internet, SDRT volunteers are being evicted, slandered in the press by WSR management and are going to have to start from scratch after 40 years. Remind me who is being mistreated in the WSR here?

 

I thought they’d had a loco swap in that the 37 had gone from the South Devon in exchange for the 25, the 37 being a bit more powerful for some of the heavier trains on the DSR?
Edit here you are @Greenway https://www.railwaymagazine.co.uk/7400/devon-diesels-swapped/