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West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by gwr4090, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. WSSRTcandidates

    WSSRTcandidates New Member

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    Certainly, happy to comment.

    Elements of Ian’s timeline are once again misleading, and he has missed a bit of the correspondence which is quite important.

    For those that care to understand the full truth of the matter, here it is.

    Tuesday 20/10/2020, around 2245

    “Members Privacy Warning” from the WSSRT drops into members’ inboxes, advising that we ten had made a request for the membership list, but not listing the four reasons why we had asked for it under the Companies Act 2006 s116. This letter also unlawfully circulated the names, postal addresses and e-mail addresses of four Trustee candidates.

    Wednesday 21/10/2020, around 1044

    Robin White wrote to all WSSRT Trustees alerting them to the data breach and asking them to apologise and to issue a “request for members to destroy the offending document”, taking action within 24hrs. The other affected parties wrote similarly to the Trustees later in the day, and one did so the next evening.

    Wednesday 21/10/2020, after 8pm

    Apology received from Chris Austin to Robin White, BCC’ed to the others (but not Dee Childs, for some reason, who still hasn’t received an apology), stating also that, “we will circulate a request to members to destroy the offending document as soon as we can.”

    Thursday 22/10/2020, around 2125

    Barrie Childs, noting that the request to members to destroy the offending document had not been issued, stated that, “I note the offending document has not yet been withdrawn; it is now 34 hours since my colleague Robin White requested it to be withdrawn within 24 hours. This is not good enough. You collectively have committed a criminal offence and are compounding it by not taking the urgent steps required to mitigate the damage you have caused.”

    Friday 23/10/2020, around 1626

    Ian Coleby wrote to Barrie Childs: “Barrie, Chris Austin has asked me to deal with this. I acknowledge the receipt of the email below. The trust takes its data protection responsibilities very seriously and we regret any breaches. We will be looking at the questions you ask in more detail after the AGM when we can give it full and proper consideration. Regards Ian”

    Friday 23/10/2020, 1753

    Chris Austin’s long resignation missive is posted on Facebook.

    Friday 23/10/2020, around 1754

    Barrie Child sent an e-mail to all Trustees, stating that: “You need to attend to these matters immediately. I have no wish to involve the Police but neither can I condone your criminal actions, therefore I will have no alternative but to do so in the event these matters are not resolved to my satisfaction by midday on Saturday 24th October 2020. I will be passing your contact information as listed here to the relevant authorities: https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/01079916/officers

    Friday 23/10/2020, around 2344

    Apology for the GDPR breach circulated to WSSRT Members by Don Fraser, on behalf of Chris Austin, with request to destroy the data.

    Ian Coleby stated above that, “The 24hr timeframe was unachievable given the other issues we were dealing with and I told the person that.”

    No he didn’t.

    His exact words were, “We will be looking at the questions you ask in more detail after the AGM when we can give it full and proper consideration.” (the bold italics have been added by us to emphasise the key line).

    And of course it was achievable. It only took a quick e-mail, in the event, to issue the apology and the instruction to members to destroy the data.

    So why did it take over 72 hours from issuance of the unlawful ‘Members Privacy Warning’ for the apology and retraction instruction to arrive?

    It is clear that only the mention of reporting to the Police was sufficient to escalate the matter, which eventually elicited the apology and request to destroy the data, which came out soon after.

    Can we please stop this selective presentation of the facts, it does the WSSRT no favours, and it takes up a lot of everybody’s time, when we could have been having a grown-up debate about how the voice of volunteers and members could be better represented on the WSR.
     
  2. On Tuesday 20th October 2020 The WSSRT Ltd knowingly and deliberately released a significant amount of both mine and my wife’s private personal data to over 200 people without seeking nor obtaining our permission. The way they used that data was outside of the rules allowing exemption from ICO registration. The exemption only applies to not for profit organisations for the sole purpose of passively administering membership data and to facilitate private contact with those members. This data release was not in that category. Legal opinion advises me their normal everyday business procedures also take them outside of the exemption parameters and they therefore should be registered with ICO.

    The following morning (Wednesday 21st October) one of my colleagues similarly affected offered the Trust reasonable and considered suggestions to mitigate the damage done and so resolve the matter. I had sight of that communication and felt it to be a reasonable proposal were it to be honoured. One of those suggestions was for the Trust to recall the offending document within 24 hours. The communication also asked whether the Trust had a designated data controller.

    By the evening of Thursday 22nd October the document had not been recalled and was still causing damage. I had taken advice and discovered that Section 170 of the Data Protection Act 2018 criminalised knowingly disclosing personal data without the consent of the data controller. I was advised to find out the Company’s ICO registration number and ask them who their data controller is. Checking ICO records of similar organisations, for example SDRT, reveals an individual recorded as data controller.

    At 21:25 hrs on Thursday 22nd October I emailed the trustees. Here is the relevant part of that communication:

    For the sake of all of us, and to try to introduce some regularisation of governance at the Trust, I have committed to taking this further and have today been in contact with the Information Commissioner’s Office (ICO) to discuss your adherence to the Data Protection Act and it’s various statutory requirements as regards the Trust. Under that Act you are required to formally appoint a Data Controller but you seem reluctant to reveal which of you holds that responsibility. The Data Controller is the person I must make contact with to demand a formal investigation of the data breach I was involved in. That person is also responsible for filing the subsequent investigation report with the ICO. Here I met a problem. Neither myself nor the ICO could identify a record of your registration with that Office, as the Law requires. I have been advised to seek these two pieces of information from you:

    - The full name and address of your designated Data Controller


    - Your Registration Number as issued to you by the ICO at point of registration

    I require this information, preferably by return, but definitely within 24 hours maximum please.

    19 hours later (Friday 23rd October 16:26) I received this reply from Ian Coleby:

    Barrie, Chris Austin has asked me to deal with this.

    I acknowledge the receipt of the email below.

    The trust takes its data protection responsibilities very seriously and we regret any breaches.

    We will be looking at the questions you ask in more detail after the AGM when we can give it full and proper consideration.

    Regards

    Ian

    I took this to mean my compromised data was to remain in circulation until at least mid-November. No response to my data controller request, repeating my colleagues unanswered request from 56 hours earlier.

    My reply (30 minutes later) was in a different tone:

    WSSRT Trustees,

    Collectively the ten of you clearly do not understand the gravity of the criminal offence you have committed. These are serious matters that cannot be dealt with ‘at your convenience’. The fact that you are holding an AGM has no relevance to this situation. You are bound by Law to furnish me with this information without further delay. Failure to provide this statutory information when requested is a further serious criminal offence compounding those you have already committed.

    It is clear that you have every intention of deliberately leaving the GDPR data breach offending documents in circulation for as long as they suit your purpose, thus creating further potential for damage.

    You need to attend to these matters immediately. I have no wish to involve the Police but neither can I condone your criminal actions, therefore I will have no alternative but to do so in the event these matters are not resolved to my satisfaction by midday on Saturday 24th October 2020. I will be passing your contact information as listed here to the relevant authorities:

    (Companies House trustee list)

    I reserve the right to publicise these exchanges should I decide to do so.

    I urge you to take this seriously. This is a final warning.

    Barrie Childs

    6 hours later I received a copy of the retraction and apology I had been seeking, 76 hours after the original breach and thereafter considered the matter closed. I do not believe WSSRT would have taken any swift action without such a robust communication. You might judge it to be over the top, but you and your family were not compromised in such a cavalier manner. I consider the manner of that data breach was vindictive (but I did not state that).

    As so many times before, the WSSRT chose to draw wider attention to this matter. Until now I had kept it where it belongs; an internal Steam Trust affair.

    If only the original AGM had been allowed to run, both sides putting their considered case and the membership allowed to decide. I had thought much better of the current and recently retired trustees, I really had.

    Oh, Ian Coleby finally answered the data controller question at 16:20 this afternoon (Saturday 24th October), 80 hours after first being asked:

    Barrie,
    1. There is no requirement for the WSSRT to register with the ICO.
    2. The Trust is a data controller. You already have the contact details.
    Regards

    Ian
     
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  3. nanstallon

    nanstallon Part of the furniture

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    This gets worse by the day.
     
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  4. WSSRTcandidates

    WSSRTcandidates New Member

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    This is sloppy and selective language again I'm afraid. Only the four parties affected by the unlawful GDPR breach were in correspondence with the WSSRT Trustees about the breach. It was not 'a threat from the ten'. It is important to report the details accurately.
     
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  5. ross

    ross Well-Known Member

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    In the light of the statements by WSSRT Trustees, and Barrie Childs, I apologise for my comments. I was misled. It would appear that the threat of involving the police was not only justified, but necessary under the circumstances.
     
  6. I'm sorry it has taken me so long to compile the above response. I have been out most of the day and had no idea of the firestorm building. I really did think this matter should have remained between myself and the current trustee group.
     
  7. nine elms fan

    nine elms fan Part of the furniture

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    Lock the thread for a few days, maybe people will cool down a bit.
     
  8. QB Cook

    QB Cook Guest

    Collectively, we cannot emphasise how hard we have tried to avoid threads like this, but the constant demand for answers, and only that, has forced us to reply. This whole sorry saga could have been dealt with by the AGM, so yes, I land the fault squarely at the feet of the WSSRT.
    Further to the data breach, Barrie and I have received an email as a direct result. Thankfully for us it was poorly written and ill informed. We quietly referred this to the Trustees and duly had an email from Ian Coleby saying it had been dealt with. End of story.
    We have neither bullied nor insulted. I invite each and every one of you to build a folio of where and when this happened and we will address it but you will struggle.
    As a direct result of the lack of accountability on the railway and the official WSSRT Facebook page, it has descended into the most hideous vitriole I have ever read. It is disgusting in the extreme and yes, a well known poster on here is adding fuel to the fire. Are there no admins monitoring this? Clearly not!
    We do badly want to bring peace to the railway, but there is a cache of misguided people who do not want that to happen.
     
  9. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    Its all rather sad, isnt it, It's not helped by people only posting selective snippets and then, when the full story comes out, It's actually worse than any of us imagined, and I'm sorry but it does the Trustees no good what so ever, the reputation of people, who I thought were decent people based on their previous endevers to do with the WSRA 's problems is now shred by what we now know. but why are decent people doing this?
     
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  10. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    My head hurts.
     
  11. I wish it was just my head!

    Actually, locking the thread would give me a day off. 14 days quarantine anyone?
     
  12. Greenway

    Greenway Part of the furniture

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    I agree with Nine Elms, the thread needs closing at present. Despite Big Als request, we have more WSR tit-for-tat/damage limitation or whatever you want to call it. This will never be resolved it seems; opinions are far to entrenched.
    Again we see the banding around of legal threats: that most certainly does not bode for peaceful talk.
     
  13. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I think having had one side on this particular matter it was important to have the other, especially given how damaging it appeared. Whether it might be worth leaving it there now is something for others to determine.
     
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  14. QB Cook

    QB Cook Guest

    It is the OFFICIAL WSSRT Facebook page, it is an open, public page and is full of insults, threats, the most vile vitriole you could ever wish to read. It needs to be closed down. Lack of any adequate governance on the railway is causing it to descend to an appalling level. Heavens, if these are the true volunteers..... well I'll leave you to judge. We have kept a record.
     
  15. gwilialan

    gwilialan Well-Known Member

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    Ok Enough of all your arguing and infighting.

    Too many loose cannons today. It looks like someone has just lined you up, lit your fuses and is now sitting back watching you all firing at each other...
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2020
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  16. Robin Moira White

    Robin Moira White Resident of Nat Pres

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    It does seem that Ian C’statements aren’t entirely correct, nor are the resignation statements which appear to complain about matters which have occurred AFTER they resigned. None of us are perfect, and none of us are Time Lords.

    On that score, I was made aware around the turn of the year that Chris Austin intended to stand down at this year’s AGM. Despite his resignation statement, I wish him well. He will remember that he and I worked well together as WSR plc and WSRA Chairmen In that far-off year before WSR wheel-rail problems. I salute his service which includes achievements like Minehead turntable.

    Perhaps the current Trustees would consider an apology for recent statements, perhaps not.

    Perhaps Barrie reacted more forcefully than I and others might have done. We can’t know. It wasn’t their personal data put into the public domain.

    But PERHAPS more importantly there are those who before voting in the WSSRT election and on the proposed resolutions might like to debate the important questions of:

    (1) how best we get from ‘here’ to a single supervening WSR charity, and

    (2) would the WSSRT be better off as part of that larger charity.

    Just a suggestion.

    Or maybe some folks would like to carry on throwing custard pies rather than dealing with the real issues.

    Robin
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2020
  17. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    Indeed. One name on there that I recognise from here, and a number of names of individuals that I hope never to encounter. And for the individual that I recognise from here, I suggest he reflects carefully on the impression he leaves. Vindictive and hateful are among the more printable words going through my mind; more seriously, it reinforces the belief I and others have that a WSR with such hate embedded cannot but fail.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  18. Platform 3

    Platform 3 Member

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    As a solicitor with both a charity law and data protection background this thread makes my head hurt. If I had to comment on each issue or inaccurate statement written I would be here all night.

    Sent from my SM-G770F using Tapatalk
     
  19. jma1009

    jma1009 Well-Known Member

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    Barrie,

    Do you accept that a suggestion of police involvement over what was a pretty minor matter anyway (at least to me) was both wrong and unnecessary in all respects?

    I can well understand Chris Austin and David Baker taking the view they have when faced at their respective ages of this totally wrong accusation of inter alia a criminal offence they were accused of by you and police involvement?

    Unfortunately, Barrie, you have tainted the group of prospective candidates for the WSSRT board.

    We all make mistakes, and in this case, you ought to do as Chris Austin did, and apologise.
     
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2020
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  20. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    I think I agree with Julian, heat of the moment, sorry to cause such distress, etc. etc. It may even be advantageous to stand down, put some clear space between the objectives of the WSSRT candidates and what has come out today, because irrespective of what *actually* happened, it didn't look good. Given other resignations this would not jeapordize the stated aims. It's still savable, but I think it needs more than simply releasing email trails at this point. Right now there are a lot of people who were sympathetic to the aims feeling like they wished they'd never got involved.
     

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