BR steam liveries

Just to clarify, Schools were never classified as MT it was just that the centralised BR organisation couldn’t understand that a 4-4-0 could be an Express engine so they were painted in ordinary passenger lined black. When the regions were given more autonomy in 1956 the Southern corrected that and lined green became the livery but 30900/914/919/932 remained in black until withdrawal.
The situation with pannier tanks wasn’t that simple. One or two 5700 and 9600 class were given mixed traffic livery, the standard livery for the passenger classes 5400/6400/7400s was lined green from 1956.
Britannia’s were always intended to be Express passenger locos and were liveried accordingly as were the Clans.

 

J69 (6)8619, spent some time in GE Blue as (I believe) West Side pilot at Liverpool Street, I'm not sure if this is the surviving 'Buckjumper' or not.

 

68633 is the survivor.

 

I'm surprised that we've gone this far into this thread of BR livery anomalies without mentioning the former LMS Pacifics - a number of which gained lined crimson livery after the BR regions gained more autonomy.

 

BR lined Crimson lake or LMS style lined Crimson Lake? Another few to throw into the mix is certain Jinties and J72’s with numbers on their side tanks outshopped from Darlington I think.
St Rollox and their larger numbers (check out the difference between 44871 and 45047 on the cab side) I believe an 82xxx also wore its number on the cab side than on its bunker (I should look it up, but I’ve work later) it’s on the 82045 site anyhow.

 

I may be wrong but I think it was called maroon by then rather than crimson. Was it the same maroon as used on coaches?

 

I’m going to retreat to a safe distance now Alex Good luck mate!

 

Didn't one Fowler 2-6-4 Tank get lined green?

 

A few were Crimson with BR style lining at first (6204/8/6225/6/36/40/43/44/46/47/51/54, all later changed to LMS style. The Sottish Region didn’t join in and all of their Pacifics remained green.
BR Livery variations could form a whole study in itself, I’ve already mentioned the Schools and they, along with other Maunsell tender classes had variations in cabside lining style.

 

I think that is correct - it was a change in name only and it was the same as coach maroon. There seems to be some confusion over the terms "crimson" and "crimson lake". Crimson (BS BS381C 540) is the "blood" in pre 1956 'blood and custard'. Crimson Lake /Maroon (BS381C 452 Dark Crimson) is the post 1956 BR Maroon. Over the years some have argued that the "maroon" was a different shade to MR/LMS "crimson lake" but when one reads the painting specs it seems that it was more of a change in painting method. The MR painters relied on the red oxide undercoats and varnish layers to give the deep rich 'red' finish. AIUI BR used different undercoats and, for instance, a grey undercoat would give a more 'purpley' appearance compared with the same top coat over red oxide. Just my 2p worth.
Cheers,
Ray.

 

The Midland actually used red lead primer followed by brown undercoat. Some years ago there was speculation among members of the HMRS that the Midland livery for goods engines was changed to brown in the early 1900s. The true picture was that the booming coal traffic resulted in a shortage of engines so they decided to save about a fortnight on overhauls by turning them out in varnished undercoat. I can well imagine that applying all those coats of paint, varnish and lining would have taken a couple of weeks.

 

While on the subject of BR loco liveries, here is a picture that has long puzzled me.

I took it at Carnforth on 3/8/68 showing the preserved Fairburn tank, 42085, in as withdrawn condition. It was withdrawn from Normanton shed in Oct/Nov 1967, still carrying the earlier style of BR lion and wheel emblem. As it had a General Repair, including a boiler swap, at Crewe in 1964 it surely must have had a repaint then, so why did it not receive the later style of emblem which had been introduced from about 1957? How common was it for works to carry on using the old style and were works other than Crewe doing this so late in the day?

Just curious

Peter

 

A repaint wasn't necessarily part of a Heavy General overhaul, especially by 1964, and if the paint was in decent condition, patch painting was all it would get.

 

Isn’t this a reason for an 8F giving the appearance of being outshopped in lined black?

 

The below photo looks like it was taken from a different angle but this time in colour.

 

I stand to be corrected but wasn’t the type of engine also a factor? I can’t think of any example of top flight express locos not getting a repaint and often at intermediate repairs. A good example being the LMS red Pacifics with BR style lining with virtually all of them getting a new coat of paint and LMS lining within a couple of years.

 

One of the BR Clan 4-6-2s scrapped at Darlington went to the torch with an early emblem still on its tender.

 

Going back a generation, but as late as 1926 Eastleigh turned out some T9s with boilers newly fitted with superheaters, but still in LSWR livery. The original paint was still considered in good condition despite all the work done to fit a superheater into the boiler (new tube plates, new firebox tube plate, new smokebox etc).

Tom

 

Likely, I don't have them to hand but there are photos knocking about of some GWR tank engines well into BR days still having GWR on the tank sides.

Is that 61306 behind her?

 

I thought that those examples of GWR locos still showing GWR into the 1960s were due to later layers of paint wearing off revealing what was underneath, rather than because they hadn't been painted? You wouldn't get 15 years into the BR period without a repaint ...

Tom