Construction of QJ`s in Datong

Hello!
I`m posting a link to a series of great photos taken by a german visiting Datong Workshop in 1986 showing the construction of the famous QJ-class.
https://www.drehscheibe-online.de/foren/read.php?017,9591902

A total of 4700 of these massive engines were constructed, and a that time the costs of building one QJ was approximately 1/5 compared to an modern diesel electric locomotive.
The last steam locomotives constructed in China were probably in Tangshan 1999.

Knut

 

Magnificent machines. Managed a footplate trip the lead loco of a pair over the Jing Peng Pass. A wonderful experience.

 

An aspect of class QJ which intrigues me, is its Russian-connection aspect: associated with Chinese / USSR co-operation / assistance, prior to the two countries' falling-out over matters of ideology; and it would seem to a certain extent, even after. It is reckoned that the QJ design was to a considerable extent, based on that of the Soviet Railways' class LV 2-10-2 -- China's first QJs built and entered service in, I believe, the early 1960s.

Their predecessors to some extent in China, were still more closely USSR-related: the class FD 2-10-2s -- over a thousand of which were, in the late 1950s and thus before the great Sino / Soviet disagreement: passed on from service on the Soviet Railways, to China's rail system; they were, to that end, converted from Russian 5ft. gauge to Chinese 4ft. 8-and-a-half in. They ran in China for about thirty years; being superseded ongoingly, by the new class QJ -- if I'm right, the last FDs were withdrawn in 1985. (The class retained on the Chinese railways, its Soviet designation of FD [or Cyrillic equivalent].) I recall reading accounts of the earliest permitted visits to China, around the mid-1970s, for Western railway enthusiasts -- strictly organised / directed / controlled, of course. At that time, a fair number of FDs could be seen in service; but QJs were more numerous, and were clearly ousting their formerly-broad-gauge "cousins". With things Soviet being out of favour then in China: the group's China Rail hosts tended to be dismissive of class FD as "Russian rubbish", and full of praise for their QJ successors.

 

If anyone is interested, here is a picture of an FD in China in 1989. By that time none were left in service but this example was in the then open air museum at Sujitun near Shenyang. Since then the loco and the museum have relocated to a purpose built exhibition hall. There is also an FD displayed in the Railway Museum near Bejing.

I thought this was an impressive looking beast, but I understand that is was nowhere near as powerful as its size might suggest - a bit like its QJ successors.

Peter

 

Whether the QJ flattered to deceive or not, they were impressive pieces of kit.
QJ6356 QJxxxx Jing Peng Pass, China by KING COBRA 92, on Flickr

 

Indeed Ian, they gave us the last great steam show on earth. Now that viaduct looks familiar.........

Quarry Viaduct with QJ6851 seen from QJ6998, Feb 2003

Peter

 

I did sound recording on my footplate trip so getting a photo as well was a tad difficult. Going through the tunnels was interesting.

 

Of course there are some interested in this! A great photo of a huge engine! thanks a lot for sharing this with us torgormaig!

Knut

 

Don't know what happened to this KD at Lanzhou but it appeared to have just come through the shops there in 1988 so one would have expected it to be in service for a while unless for industrial use or a museum?

We did visit Datong on that trip and I think the Wardale modified QJ was outside although I can't lay my hands on a photo of it at the moment. If I recall there were at least two that were tinkered with - one extreme and one not so extreme!

 

Managed a trip around Tangshan works when they were still building SY class 2-8-2s, again I think 1988 but maybe 86.. Here are a trio in primer awaiting steam tests.

 

The QJs were really impressive Ian, I had 2 trips,2002/3. Unforgettable

 

Went five times although my third trip was QJ free as we did narrow gauge forestry stuff and heavy industrial systems. The Telecom hotel in Reshui was a great place to stay as westbound freights would slog past your bedroom window on the lowest level of the loops and you could follow the train all the way up to the top level. Opening the window to do some sound recording was a tad chilly in the depths of winter.

 

Great stuff.We went with Bernd Seiller (Far Rail) and apart from a short time at the narrow gauge near Beijing spent all the time on the pass.,based at Reshui

 

1988 would be right for SY 1618. I was there in early April 89 and they were building SYs in the 1640s number series by then, including SY1647M which was the first of three built for buyers in the USA.

Peter

 

First trip was with the Travel Bureau but organised the rest myself. Over the four trips we did the colliery systems at Pindingshan, Tiefa, Pingzhuang and Yuanbaoshan. Baotu and Handan steelworks. Narrow gauge at Daihachung and Weihe. Steelworks branch at Chengde. The BaoShen line with triple QJs on coal. And last but not least the JiTong line, the jewel in its crown being the Jing Peng Pass. Others did much more than me of course as they started going to China earlier but I'm glad i got to do what I did. One of Bernd's groups was in the sam ehotel at Reshui on my final trip. It was my birthday and my group was having a bit of a party. Bernd asked for some quiet as he was getting up early. So were we but no way were we going to stop celebrations early.

 

Robin Gibbons have written some books about of chinese steam locomotives, maybe some would find it interesting?
https://www.tynedale-publishing.com/shop

Knut

 

Perhaps I'm being dense: but the referred-to picture would seem to me -- unless I'm "missing a trick" -- to be of a QJ 2-10-2; class KD was a different breed: wheel arrangement 2-8-0. I gather that the class's KD7 variant, at all events: comprised a total of 160 locos built in the USA immediately after World War II, for the post-war rehabilitation of China's railways. I recall from the very early enthusiast visit to China -- 1976 if I have things rightly -- whose findings mentioned in my post upthread; further to the comic side of China's then being on an unfriendly footing with more than one large and important nation -- in a bout of rather schoolboy-type humour: the tour participants dubbed, from their class initials, FD and KD (some then still active in the generally northerly parts of China which the tour covered), "Flying Donkeys" and "Kicking Donkeys" respectively. This tickled the fancy of the tour's China Rail guides, from its inferred disrespect of both Russian, and American, machines.

Chinese two-Roman-letter steam class designations strike me as being rather interestingly random: some "propaganda" -- Roman transliterations of initials of inspiring Chinese phrases: QJ, for example, from the Chinese for "march, or advance, forward"; whereas FD was directly from the class's Russian designation, just Romanising the Cyrillic; and KD, I've been given to understand, came from "C[K]onsoliDation": American term for a 2-8-0. Similarly, I gather, the 2-6-2 PL class -- some members of which still working 4 / 5 decades ago, but the class long a thing of the past -- PL from "PraiR[L]ie"; allowing for the Chinese tongue's way with r's and l's.

Has always seemed to me a little odd -- though a mercy for those of us who use alphabets for writing our languages -- that despite the east Asian countries' manner of writing theirs: for whatever reason, they chose Roman letters for their -- steam, at any rate -- loco class designations. China does this, and -- in a different mode -- Japan; and I think, though again differing in detail, South Korea (North Korea I'm not sure about).

 

@huecochemi of this forum

 

My thought was that the "KD" was a simple typing error for "FD". The "FD" is short for Felix Dzerzhinski. According to Peter Clark's 'Locomotives in China' these locos were built in the Soviet Union between 1931 and1942 and about 1250 of them were transferred to China in the late 50's and early 60's. They were re-gauged at Changchun and numbered 1001 to 2250.
Ray.

 

I went on a steam trip with my Dad to north East China in 1990. There was about 30 other Brits on the tour. Went from Beijing to Shenjang and saw the museum there. All the locos were outside, including this Streamliner and the FD. There was also a lot of other locos just dumped out of use nearby just rusting away. We then went to Changchun, Jilin, Harbin. Huge depots at each place with many QJs, and JF and JS 2-8-2 . Had a ride on a JS at Shenyang. There were also SL Pacifics still in use, although less common to see. Many trains double headed by QJs on long freights. Some had 12 wheel tenders, some 8 wheel.

One location very popular at the time was Nancha Bank, north east of Harbin which was a very, very steep single line branch and QJs would struggle up there with Passenger and freights, often with another QJ pushing from behind. There is some Youtube videos of the location, see below. I remember it being very cold and remote.



China was still very full on communist then. No brand names. There was always a government tour guide with the group at all times. Things stamped with stuff like No 2 radio factory. I have been to China twice with work since and it had changed enormously since that first visit. There were hardly any cars, just buses and a few lorries. We slept on the train sometimes and each coach had an attendant and there was cups of hot tea with lids on them. The sleeping compartments were comfortable inside. We arrived in Jilin still on the train and getting up and there was a JF in steam right next to the train, so photos straight away of it. In the North East there were diesels but still not many at that time.

Went also to the Tangshan loco factory where they were still producing the SYs for industrial use although there were only about 4 or 5 there and you could see it was coming to an end. There was a big earthquake there in 1976 and there was lots of rubble of buildings that had collapsed nearby.

I am glad I saw steam there in regular normal use,when there was still masses of locos still in use, but don't find the Chinese locos particularly appealing from a looks point of view.