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Llangollen Railway

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by 14xx Lover, Jan 4, 2010.

  1. hoffman

    hoffman New Member

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    Where is a millionaire (or at least somebody rich) when you need one?

    Stu
     
  2. twr12

    twr12 Well-Known Member

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    Someone sent me the Receiver’s disposal list. I didn’t ask for it.

    I hope I can get away with not copying and pasting it here in its entirety, but I think I'm alright to say that no track appears on the list.
     
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  3. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

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    Definitely looks like the LR will be a shadow of its former self for some time to come. Will Foxcote Manor ever return?
     
  4. Alan Kebby

    Alan Kebby Well-Known Member

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    If it can earn higher fees working elsewhere than the new LR operating entity/trust can afford to pay, then not for a long time at least. Same can probably be said for 5199.
     
  5. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    At least the Llangollen will re appear in some form, imagine how bad it would have been if everything stock, track, buildings, locos were owned by the PLC, there would be no coming back from that, at least some degree of public opening might be possible, We were always expecting, a major failure in the preservation world at some time, but I must admit, I never thought the LR would be the one that tipped into insolvency, my money was on another railway in Somerset being the most likily to go under.
     
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  6. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

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    I thought that the Foxcote Manor fund had already decided before all this came about that the grass was greener elsewhere and committed their future to the WSR, the last visit back to Llangollen to cover the loco shortage only happened because the WSR wasn’t in operation.
     
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  7. Alan Kebby

    Alan Kebby Well-Known Member

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    I thought it was only a shortish term hire, a year or two to the WSR, with Llangollen remaining their home base?

    Where is 6430 these days? Has it left Llangollen already?
     
  8. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

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    Well put it this way, it was unlikely to run at Llangollen during the current ticket so certainly not for the foreseeable future.

    6430 - I thought I read on this thread somewhere it had left or was going to be leaving a few days ago.
     
  9. Wagoniester

    Wagoniester Member

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  10. RichardBrum

    RichardBrum Member

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    There will be assets that will be nice to have, but not essential*, & that could be easily replaced in the future. Better to let them go & concentrate on the essentials.

    *(I'm thinking of most/all of the engineering stuff. It is likely to be easier to sell, so the receivers might do separate auctions giving more time for the Trust to raise funds)
     
  11. Ruston906

    Ruston906 Member

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    They are fortunate to have the DMU group so running a service is not that difficult or requiring lots of hiring expense and a return to be a voluntary organisation like Gloucester and Warwick.
     
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  12. D1039

    D1039 Guest

    The PLC directors said "the balance sheet is now insolvent to the extent of £350,000" and "There is no prospect of meeting these liabilities, even over an extended period." It looks to me like more than selling some PLC coaches to assuage the bank.

    Others on here will be better qualified to comment but I think the current method of insolvency is via Administration, at least initially, although the message has changed over the month:

    Llangollen Railway PLC – Press release 1st March 2021 "the directors of Llangollen Railway PLC have had to take the reluctant step of inviting the bank to appoint a receiver."

    Llangollen Railway Trust Ltd – Press release 16 March 2021 "Whilst the PLC will go into administration or liquidation shortly"

    Website - "Alan Coleman and Jason Mark Elliott of Cowgill Holloway Business Recovery LLP have been formally engaged to assist the Directors with placing Llangollen Railway Plc into Administration."

    Sales website - By Order of the Proposed Administrators

    Patrick
     
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  13. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    What is the difference between receivership and administration? It would appear to suggest that things have got worse or am I reading too much into that?
     
  14. Kje7812

    Kje7812 Part of the furniture

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  15. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

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    Administration means a company will attempt to find a way to pay the creditors avoiding liquidation. Receivership is an attempt to release the maximum amount possible to the creditors and usually that includes liquidation as part of the process.
     
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  16. Bikermike

    Bikermike Well-Known Member

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    The factor here is the receiver. They are not obliged to do anything other than recover the value of the loan they advanced from the security pledged. Whether the "patient" lives or dies isn't their duty. This is good and bad. They don't have to kill the entity, but they don't have to not kill it. If they can see a way to get what they need without more disturbance then they will do. (hence my comments previously about getting a good price for assets).

    In theory, a receiver could leave a going concern with no need for further insolvency. In reality, this never happens: why would the company have got that far behind if it didn't have to? But from there, the entity will need to appoint an IP who decides which way to go (but as noted, they are under a duty to consider administration first). It comes down to a vote amongst creditors

    Receivership is a one-way street. It is the orderly distribution of assets.

    Administration is something from which a going concern may be salvaged. With the accent on "may". Quite rightly, the insolvency laws aim to avoid businesses being wound-up unnecessarily, and IPs (Insolvency Professionals) are obliged to consider Administration before liquidation in all but hopeless cases. This can be just prolonging the agony.

    If the entity is "only" £350k short, then the Receiver may be able to see a way to recover that with simple sales of movable property, and then the remaining creditors may see a future in keeping the business going.

    To me, all that the sequence of announcements say is default on securitised loan, and that the business isn't definitely toast
     
  17. Alan Kebby

    Alan Kebby Well-Known Member

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    10 or 15 Mk1s at maybe £20-£30k each, £350k could conceivably be reached. The problem is the Plc wouldn’t then have any coaches left to run the service.
     
  18. 30854

    30854 Resident of Nat Pres

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    Each case is different of course, but several historic railways have operated under receivership, often for years. On the Isle of Wight, the FY&NR benefitted from the experience of no less than Sir Sam Fay during it's receivership. Down Somerset way, the WC&PR came under the umbrella of the Col Stephens group of lines. In 1906, the NWNGR even named new flagship loco Russell after their receiver.
     
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  19. Bikermike

    Bikermike Well-Known Member

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    That is back in the mists of time, I don't think receivers nowadays have that power (certainly the Official Receiver only has 12 months to act). Also railways have different rules
     
  20. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    (Deleted)
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2021

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