Long Term Steam Routes

I wasn’t necessarily thinking of the maths, but any little local constraints that might apply.


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The first season of the West Coast revival terminated at Porthmadog. IIRC, the stock pulled into a siding to allow trains to cross. The subsequent season went all the way to Pwllheli. Railtours have previously run as far as Tywyn or Barmouth.
Loops are operational at Barmouth, Harlech & Porthmadog - I don't know if any of the 97 hauled engineers trains have used the loop at Pwllheli recently or if the loop / siding at Tywyn is used - perhaps someone can advise.
The typical load back then was 6 or 7 air braked Mk 2's, it was the set used these days for the second Jacobite service.

 

Looking at RTT, it appears that the 158s are stabled overnight in the loop at Pwllheli.

I think it looks like the only thing stopping steam on the Cambrian is the lack of a solution to ERTMS.

 

Tywyn definitely used for Xing. Recent out of season (i.e. 2car workings) clips seen with more trains in than passengers on the platforms. I'm guessing at least some schools traffic still exists.

How on earth one can make a train every 2hours attractive is beyond me. Economic reality sucks.

 

Albeit a few years since I last used the coast trains, they are/were busy in summer months. Outside that, the issue is the places along the coast are fairly small and it's a fairly slow journey.
At least the Aber service is mostly hourly with the new stock on order planned to allow it to be fully hourly during the day.

 

Would the presence of the little railway be of relevance? (Clearly the support coach will carry all the spare parts expected to be needed, but the presence of a large coal stock, ash disposal infrastructure, machine tools and fitters might be an advantage. Or is anything big enough to require fixing automatically game over and call in a thunderbird?). It's also somewhere to go and do something (including non-railway stuff)

 

The line north of Dovey Jn only survived because of the poor roads and the detour via Dolgellau to cross the Mawddach estuary.
The school traffic does still exist and the last time (2018) I was up there was quite heavy, probably equal to a double deck bus each way from Harlech.

Another reason that the line survived was that 40 plus years ago there was still the explosives traffic from Penrhyn. During the 1970's rebuilding for Barmouth viaduct that was hauled by diesel parcel units until it was diverted to road movement to Trawsfyndd or Blaenau. (That traffic only lasted a few years until Nobel explosives in Penrhyn closed. Before anyone asks, it was moved on separate trains to the flasks.)

Cheers, Neil

 

Every 4 hours on the Heart of Wales! Prior to lockdown we were celebrating a 5th train being added to the timetable, great for early connections at Shrewsbury and Crewe, but still useless when the latest train back departs Shrewsbury at 6pm. Hence I am more likely to use the Cambrian which runs later. However, the HofW service remains popular for shopping in Shrewsbury and Birmingham or Swansea.

Tourist trains would increase the viability of this route, just as they have on the Mallaig extension.

 

A cynic might feel the route through five marginal parliamentary constituencies had more to do with it's survival. I'd venture to suggest that if roads were truly the defining issue, Bude (amongst other places) would still be on the railway map.

Great to hear the CCL schools traffic survives. It's importance was impossible to miss when I was last there.

 

I thought it was the Heart of Wales line that had the 5 marginal constituencies? I wouldn’t be surprised though if it was a similar case on the Cambrian.

 

I thought the HoW was 9...

My question about Bude is whether the railway was an important connector between communities in the way that the CCL is - my reading of the map suggests that the railway's contribution to local connectivity was limited.

 

Turns out you're right. I always thought it was the CCL.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wa...manent-damage-beeching-wales-rail-6934180.amp

 

I think we may have discussed this before but what is the selling point of a short trip, hence no dining, to residents of Purbeck and Bournemouth? Yes it is a mainline ride, but if you are not really in to trains then that can probably be fulfilled by going to Swanage or the MHR. Residents who have a desire for Salisbury will have been there many times and Yeovil is hardly York or Canterbury. (More like Belguim, somewhere you pass through on the way to elsewhere). The Fleet Air Arm Museum is nearly 10 mile from Yeovil Junction so that means coaches and more cost. If you did not want to go there what else is there? Even the Sherborne Xmas trips only had about 50 staying on to go to the centre at Yeovil.
Add to that Swanage are not in the game of mainline tours so you need to bring in stock, (even if was Riviera from Eastleigh, let alone WCRC from Southall). To top it all the loco would end up facing the opposite way when it arrives back at Swanage. Even if it was Flying Scotsman which people seem prepared to pay a premium, even for "a quick spin" from Salisbury as SD most years then you would not be able to turn it.
It needs to work for the promoters, which means they need "normals" not just the likes of us, and yes staycations may impact passenger numbers favourably, but not many years ago there were around 9 or 10 London Weymouth trips across the two main promoters, this year I think it is 5 if you include the End of Southern Steam Trip.

 

Anything in the SE is going to have to be from London isn't it? Or at least easily accessible from it to maximise population centres (and affluence).
the dining specials out to Windsor with a diesel on the back may have been a bit of a crude solution, but it looked like it should have been a good idea to cater for the less enthusiast market. Does anybody know if they were sufficiently successful?

Is there anywhere that is far enough out to avoid intensive inner london services, but still accessible (ideally by tube as well). Ealing springs to mind, but the H/ex and crossrail has probably scuppered that. Clapham junction out to Barnes and beyond?

 

If you are just after a quick spin, accessible from London / South East, I wonder if Reading offers any possibilities? Maybe something like Reading - Basingstoke - Salisbury (layover for servicing); back via Westbury? Or maybe Reading - Salisbury - Bath (layover for passengers; train serviced and turned in the Bristol area); back direct?

You could potentially base the locos and carriages at Didcot over the season where there would be facilities for servicing. Reading is convenient for the Motorway Network and will soon have the Cross Rail connections to London making access from there very easy.

Tom

 

Options get quite thin for my experience
Ealing Broadway probably only before 0700 on a weekend
Kensington Olympia (going on to Southern) possibly, but District Line only if exhibition is on.
West Brompton (going on to Southern) SD seem to use this and District services frequent.
Maybe beyond tube connection
Slough but again early morning/later evening good parking weekends used to be full in week pre Covid
West Drayton has "spare platform" but no parking and Elizabeth Line issues.
Southall has "spare platform" if it is still classed as for passenger use, (not fenced off from down main). Major issues getting across to relief lines in either direction due volume of traffic, other than early morning, no parking.
Then you are out to the likes of Woking or Bromley South.
Hence everybody seems to plump for the 0845 Belmond Victoria path out of Victoria in the week.

 

Parking at Reading is eye wateringly expensive though.

 

What do you call "eye wateringly expensive" though (in the context of a day out on a train that could fairly easily run to £400 - £500 for a group of four)?

(Edit to add: plus of course the initial premise was "Is there anywhere that is far enough out to avoid intensive inner london services, but still accessible (ideally by tube as well)." - so I was imagining a substantial number of people from London. Think of a trip for Japanese / Chinese tourists based in London hotels: Stratford-on-Avon by steam might be another option).

Tom

 

I think London - Reading - Oxford - Worcester (servicing) - Swindon - Reading - London is a popular one. Difficult stretch is the single track from Oxford which is a bottleneck.

If starting from Reading you could do Guildford Redhill, Clapham Jnc and back to Reading that way (but that strikes me as not really a journey of visual loveliness).

Maybe Reading Guildford Southampton Westbury Reading (again not sure why you'd do that trip).

I assume if WCR were the company they would just use Southall.

 

I thought West Coast had been given notice to vacate Southall?