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West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by gwr4090, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. ikcdab

    ikcdab Member Friend

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    So just as a foil to the general critical atmosphere on this forum. We had a great day out on the railway today. We traveled on the 1235 BL behind 5199. Managed to bag our favourite seats right behind the engine and spent a lot of the trip out of the window drinking it all in. Fantastic. Coaching stock was excellent, the buffet well stocked so we had lunch on the train listening to the beat of the exhaust. Arrived on time at Dunster and eschewed the buses for a run along the beach with the dogs from DR to Minehead. That particular bit is one of the best beaches in Somerset. Ended up at Minehead for ice creams on the station platform. Then the open-top bus back to Dunster and a spirited run back behind Odney. Into BL shop for a sneaky purchase of a Bachmann Atlantic. All in glorious sunshine. We now have two very tired dogs.
    I couldn't fault the railway one iota. Superb throughout. Every passenger seemed very happy. Well done to all concerned. It's why I have been a WSR volunteer for 38 years, why I will continue and why I continue to support the railway, even when I'm dubbed one of "the usual suspects". Next weekend we are off to the SVR. Will be an interesting comparison.
    Ian Coleby
     
  2. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    Perhaps you could share the other side of the story . Many of us would be interested to hear it . I think my stance and standing up for my principles on the matter is clear . Wsr board out
     
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  3. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    I should also add , a management that as a result of a number of actions are richly deserving of every ounce of scorn and derision that comes there way . No contrition for anything they have done , and the list can be repeated if it helps as a reminder .
     
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  4. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    Ian , most of us applaud the efforts by so many volunteers to keep the WSR running and offering an enjoyable day out . On any line with everyone working together we get to see the very best of what people can achieve . the frustration with many is directed at a small cabal
     
  5. WSR_6960

    WSR_6960 New Member

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    I can only echo your comments. It's easy to get bogged down in the daily potshots posted here if you're viewing from afar, but be assured this post gives a snapshot of what 'our' railway is really about.

    The weather was kind this afternoon and helped to showcase what the WSR really has to offer. I was pleased to see good loadings on the 14.45 to DR along with a packed platform as we pulled back in for the return journey. It was commented that we should have taken a photo but we were otherwise engaged !

    A lot of hard work and dedication goes in to keeping the railway looking it's best through the dreary winter months but again, days like today during the running season make it all worth it. Here's to many more of the same ...

    I'm glad you enjoyed the return trip - I did spot you at the front window. We, along with other railways are struggling with a poor batch of Welsh coal at the moment but after 25 minutes of work to the fire in Dunster sidings Odney was a lot happier on the return as you witnessed.
     

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  6. gwilialan

    gwilialan Well-Known Member

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    Humm... Perhaps you might like to consider your own reactions where you disagree with the opinions of others on here.

    Like it or not, if people want to be "...continually banging on about them in an online forum..." they have every right to do so where they disagree with the management decisions, just as you have the same rights to disagree with those posters. I fear though they may take as little notice of you as the WSR board appears to take of them.

    No one does themselves any favours with continual sniping and petty point-scoring, or offering someone a roll around the platform, or suggesting the chair of a supporting organisation should **** off.
    It is a shame that several people on both sides of these disagreements cannot see how childish, or spiteful, or vindictive (or all of them together) their actions appear when viewed from a distance - and yet they still look for our support.
     
  7. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

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    Agreed no one can or is blaming those on the ground, they do a great job.

    Above at board level, it does seem a different story. From poor marketing to bad decisions such as not to run last year, poor treatment of long standing members or the inability to even tell you what they want your donations for in the appeal, it all adds up to form the majority of the reasons people are unhappy, not just here either.

    @jma1009 & @Monkey Magic Both got some stick I see but they both made valid points - Something doesn’t add up if your forecasts show you losing £100k a month but you record a profit even if it’s a small one. How can the forecasting be so off the mark and why are reasonable questions, especially if subsequently are going to be repeated month after month. Okay, the figures included some one off work but then going forwards over the next 3 months the railway will be running more than the period covered in the letter, if passenger levels are maintained that should offset the loss of the one off income. Don’t forget the one off income would have also incurred some one off expenses, which again can be offset against the following months income as those one off cost won’t need to be met.

    However, just to be clear I am pleased to hear the railway avoided a loss in June which is good news, if sustained it means the railway can turn things around but, where does that then leave the appeal? If the railway continues as it has for the rest of the season then £500k isn’t going to be needed to prop up the PLC, with the vague details on where the money is going then what does it actually go on?

    However, the reality is we simply don’t know, which works both ways, not only do we not know how the money is going to be used, the appeal presents no master plan so there is nothing to dispel any negative thoughts people may have about what it’s going to be used for.
     
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  8. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    I'm not so sure about "both sides". It may be true for some of those who post comments here, but among those who have actually been involved in trying to sort out the WSR I see openness and honesty on one side and quite the opposite on the other.
     
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  9. Robin Moira White

    Robin Moira White Resident of Nat Pres

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    I'm STILL waiting to hear how WSSRT funds donated to the WSR plc for works which have not been carried out are protected. Ian C knows the question has been asked and knows my e-mail address and that I can respect confidentiallity if there is some element of that in the answer. But still no explanation. Perhaps I should reconsider the monthly covenant I make to the WSSRT?
     
  10. richards

    richards Part of the furniture

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    Your views are very clear. But banging on about them in this thread is achieving what, exactly?
     
  11. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    About as much as you're doing by suggesting they stop being aired?
     
  12. richards

    richards Part of the furniture

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    I'd be happy to stop when the others do!
    I've nothing against people airing their views. But there is a limit to how often and what these posts can actually achieve.
     
  13. Snifter

    Snifter Well-Known Member

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    Turning our attention back to the critical matter in hand i.e. "we will go under unless we can raise £1,000,000", has anyone seen an update ?

    @ikcdab , were the collecting tins being rattled when you were on the train yesterday ? Was there any visibility of the appeal ?
     
  14. D1039

    D1039 Guest


    The statement said:
    "For June, the results for the month show a small profit of £2,524 compared to a budgeted loss of £110,120."

    [my emphases]

    Budgets are made prior to the financial year, so early in 2021 when lockdowns and restrictions were more in force. Subsequently there would be reforecasts and revised budgets as things changed, but the statement is referring to the budget.

    [Logical speculation from this point]. I can imagine a prudent budget being set that for June would have budgeted for lockdown, and so a loss. I suspect, from the tone of the response at the time, that the budget might have also included CRF phase II grants for which in the event WSR PLC was unexpectedly ineligible. Stretching the speculation, when forecasts and revised budgets were made they showed the resultant hole, and so the need for an appeal for further funds. That would also mean they had a different forecast for June than budget (and that's unfortunately not unusual, from experience!).

    So I can see how they might have got to this point, but to do so involves some speculation - and I might be wrong.

    Patrick
     
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  15. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    apparently irritating the wsr board supporters , anyway , have you shared the other side of the story yet ? so we can make a more informed assessment of all the WSR goings on
     
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  16. Martin Fuller

    Martin Fuller New Member

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    This is a great question. As I stated before the more miles you run between 10 year boiler lifts, the less the 10 year fixed costs hurts. (there are also potentially savings in getting a few more miles from boiler plate before the inspector says change it) So definitely how much use the locomotive will get is a big factor along with the daily fee. It may be very tempting for a railway to load up on a lot of operational engines all doing a low mileage, but is certainly not sustainable for the locomotive owners. The ideal situation is just a little redundancy in the number of available locomotives, but for each locomotive to be well maintained and reliable. My view is you need to be doing around 80-100 steamings a year average over the ten years, but with Covid this has certainly not been possible putting us on the backfoot. It is also not a given you will get the full ten years!

    IMO factors include, in no particular order:
    1. Steaming fee
    2. How many days will the locomotive get
    3. Does your engine play second fiddle to other engines, are are all engines treated equally (for the work they are capable)
    4. How hard does the engine have to work, gradients, average number of carriages etc..
    5. A good boiler treatment regime, with a very big plus point if a railway has reverse osmosis water
    6. Quality of maintenance / inspections / washouts etc.. All up how good is the engineering competence
    7. Quality of crews, drivers in particular but also firemen and engine cleanliness
    8. Do you get invoiced for every tiny bit of running maintenance, or is it only renewals/medium/big ticket stuff
    9. Are maintenance prices reasonable, are you getting value for money?
    10. Ability to work with the railway as a team to keep the engine maintained, forward planning etc.. but without doing unnecessary work
    11. Do you get to use tools, how good are the facilities for working on the engine yourself etc..
    12. How good is the track
    13. Does the railway have line side flange greasers (that work!), how high is the rate of flange wear?
    14. Are there any little perks, like a special train once a year for the owning group. Or could the owning group run a small number of its own driver experience trains?
    15. The relationship and good communications (more important than some might think)
    16. Is the engine used for continuous periods (low thermal cycles), or does it keep going hot/cold/hot/cold.
    Of course some loco owners are more hands on than others, and how each owner will prioritise the above list will vary.

    IMO, RO water would be a very good investment for the WSR. Even if a plant was only installed at one end, tender engines only need to take water at one end. That end would probably be Minehead, so that boilers could be filled with RO water from washout. This would leave Lydeard water for tank engines and emergency use only. Potentially this would also decrease washout costs, for example the Mid Hants washout every 50 days on RO water instead of 28 days before, but they have a 25 day 'doors in' examination where they hammer test the stays etc.. Naturally in the current climate I wouldn't expect any railway to make this sort of investment until sometime after we have returned to normality.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2021
  17. Hirn

    Hirn Member

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    What you suggest is to mask the symptoms while what is causing them goes from bad to terminal.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2021
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  18. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    three weeks now since the last official update , which at the time was already inflated by future energy savings

    the chairs latest missive and turning a £100k forecast loss for the month into a £2k profit maybe begs the question that a £1m wasn't needed after all as presumably the £1m was based on the budgeting for a substantial loss or will we see the £100k miraculously added to the totaliser.

    And here fundamentally we come back to the point . The messaging is all over the show , famine to feast and back again in crazy short cycles . Given the WSR didn't run in 2020 main season as they were likely (at the time) to make a loss, how can you come back in 2021 and run expecting to make a loss .

    any brand strategist and any accountant will be tearing their hair out . Who on the WSR controls the message , knows what they are doing and has a plan, or is the chair doing what he likes depending on the way the wind is blowing . Who on the board holds the chair to account ?

    None of this is rocket science , there are plenty of lines out there who can give the WSR a template to follow and would probably happily share experience and wisdom
     
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  19. Martin Fuller

    Martin Fuller New Member

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    Very much agree with this, we are all in the same boat!
     
  20. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    Many thanks for this Martin , some very interesting and thought provoking points made. Thanks also to @1472 for the earlier response too . I presume on 80-100 steamings at possibly around 3000-6000 miles a year , bottom end attention becomes likely after a period

    14 and 15 are interesting points that shows a more intangible part of the running agreement but one that makes an engine and its owning / support group welcome
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2021

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