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West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by gwr4090, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. ross

    ross Well-Known Member

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    It kind of depends on how much cider you get- Is there scope to get a second pint? Or are they serving Thatchers Katy, in which case the second or third pint is very much a judgement call.
     
  2. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    At one level this is priceless. Now there are folk suggesting how to maximise profit and marketability on their dining trains. Is there nothing that the WSR is doing that is actually fine?

    Can't think of any other heritage railway that is getting this level of scrutiny on Nat Pres. I ask because if we assume that everyone on here is generally supportive of heritage steam, on and off the network, you do start to wonder whether the WSR will ever get anything right in the eyes of Nat Pres members.

    But maybe that is the way it is?
     
  3. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Administrator Moderator Friend

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    Well to be fair they seem unable to make the QB profitable, the fish and chips and cream tea combination does seem over doing it, especially when as suggested the railway can offer both separately and potentially make more money by doing so. I think that was a sensible suggestion with the added advantage that if the one option is actually more popular or profitable, it is possible to vary which elements you are offering to suit demand which potentially means you can also lower operating costs while maximising revenue.

    I’ve said it before but only in Somerset do you get a cream tea as a free add on - everywhere else realises that is a separate chargeable attraction.

    You may think that the WSR is under particular scrutiny, however, it is apparently in crisis and appealing for massive amounts of money, it’s only human nature it would come under such scrutiny, having cast themselves in the limelight and brought about in part by a lack of clarity regarding what the donations raised will actually be used for.

    When you also read about how the railway was forecast to lose a lot of money but then made a profit, that also apparently have an incredibly low break even figure of 40 passengers a train, but couldn’t risk running half empty trains last year and risk a loss, it leads you to start questioning the boards understanding, amplified by the lack of any public plan to ensure the survival of the railway. We have seen other weaknesses such as marketing, this all leads to further scrutinisation. I don’t think anyone wants the railway to fail, which further fuels a more in depth analysis than afforded to other railways.
     
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  4. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    What other railways combine an Fish and chips meal with a cream tea? Whilst it may have sold out. it does not mean there is not room for improvement, your overheads are fixed, no matter what you offer, so why not maximise the opportunity to sell more seats,? From a personal point of view, i would not want a cream tea on top of a fish and chip meal, even if they are two hours apart, just providing a meal is the easy part, its the experience that goes with-it that makes people come back I went on the KESR offering a few years back, pre covid, and we didnt set out till it was early evening, and the experience. the ambience was just as good as the fish and chips, which came from a local supplier, the run back with the setting sun, made for a great finish, so, imagine an run out along past blue anchor, and along the coast with the sun setting, whilst your eating , how much more appealing would that be, and how many would book again? one off sell outs will not help long term, you have to attract custom that will come back, not just once, but several times, if you want to survive long term,
     
  5. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    Frankly, if you can't make a dining service profitable, you must be doing something very wrong, OK, the layout of the QB was an very stupid error, by people who did not have a clue, and listened to no body, especially those who worked on it, sounds familiar ? and it meant the number of covers could never be increased to match any potential, and then i believe they contracted it out, which lead to poor quality, bad decisions following bad decisions, and the refit, ensured the whole rake would be uneconomic to operate. for instance, the kitchen car needed the generator car, it could not be added to a rake to provide a dining service, if it was needed,
     
  6. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Never attribute to malice what can be explained by incompetence; but the WSR management seems over the last few years to have excelled at both.
     
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  7. 35B

    35B Nat Pres stalwart

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    I'd also comment on where this sub-thread started - someone looking at the WSR website, and being put off by the poor quality copy he found. That, unfortunately, is of a piece with the completely inconsistent messaging emerging from this organisation taht is simultaneously desperately short of cash and over-performing, barely able to operate economically yet with break even at a load factor of c. 10%.

    My emotions when I drop in here vary considerably, but stunned disbelief at the presentation of numbers is currently dominant.
     
  8. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Resident of Nat Pres

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    We do seem to excel in producing vast numbers of posts about a fairly small point on this thread. Perhaps because everyone's used to chipping in? We've managed a page and a half since Tom's very sensible post and not really advanced ourselves. I include anything I've posted in that!

    So, moving things along, while we await the Plc's accounts, I think we missed the latest appeal update yesterday:

    [​IMG]

    Would @D1039 Patrick care to update his spreadsheet for us? :)

    I note the Facebook post alerting us to this yet again fails to tell us where we can donate, or what it's actually for...
     
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  9. D1039

    D1039 Guest

    By public demand please note...file attached, I saw and did it yesterday. Nothing much to report, a slight uptick over the four weeks

    Cultural Recovery Fund 3 would be a significant boost, if successful.

    It's noticeable that for this appeal the WSR isn't giving a breakdown (nor do other railways, it's only noteworthy because they did last time). I'm assuming this is all revenue support, and not infrastructure support (the second £0.5m target) such as the WSRA rail appeal, but for the numbers involved it's pretty moot at the moment

    Patrick
     

    Attached Files:

  10. bluetrain

    bluetrain Well-Known Member

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    I notice on the "Bridge that Gap (GCR)" thread that £1M has been raised in 18 months, including £500K in the last 6 months, for the "Fundraising for the Factory Flyover section of Reunification" appeal.

    There are probably a number of factors responsible for the relatively poor response to the WSR £1M (or £500K?) appeal. But I strongly suspect that a major issue is that the WSR has lost a great deal of goodwill as a result of its leaders' actions towards the S&DRT and others, not just in this forum but across the wider enthusiast community. Even strong supporters of the WSR will have competing demands on their charity and may channel their spare money elsewhere.

    It may be that the WSR is able to obtain further Covid recovery grants that will remove any dependence on the success of this appeal. But if the appeal is critical to the survival of the WSR then it surely needs to strengthen its leadership, bringing in people who are able to rebuild confidence and trust among supporters. But if there are any white knights out there, would they be willing to get involved with the WSR?
     
  11. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    added to this local press coverage too which would make the wider local public aware of the issues around the WSR
     
  12. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

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    Apart from any other issues I suggest that at the moment there are a lot of calls on White Knights funds & the sort of self inflicted harm that the WSR has suffered might not attract help. In addition of course if the White Knight wants the WSR to have a future through the implementation of Bailey then they may find any offers of help rebuffed.
     
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  13. 242A1

    242A1 Well-Known Member

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    It is hard not to reach the conclusion that a white knight is the only option remaining if the railway is going to continue to exist in any recognisable form. It might be what the membership hopes for too and has perhaps been dreaming of for years. But in all the time that has gone by no one has shown up and it isn't as though the need is not urgent. The WSR is unable to help itself; fundamentally it doesn't want to change, there might be some dissenters and they might be quite vocal but these voices are crying in the wilderness. It is incapable of taking either advice or guidance, stiff necked to the point of extinction.

    If you had the money and interest would you support this endeavour? Or would you support something else? The state of the current appeal tells us something about the level of support now existing for the line. Do the members of the groups associated with the line seriously believe that words don't spread? Look at the numbers, not only the appeal but also passenger numbers and the day to day costs of keeping the line open and don't overlook the cost of overcoming the infrastructure issue. The balance of forces here, those working to keep the line open and those driving to closure are weighted, and it is hard to see the forces wanting to keep the line open prevailing, not without substantial outside assistance. And that assistance has not shown up yet and it might well not do.
     
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  14. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    When things are going well no one will pay much attention, when things go badly people pay more attention and the level of scrutiny increases. No one really cares about exams unless there is a **** up.

    When a football team is winning no one really cares that a limited player keeps on being picked ie a striker who doesn't score goals, when the team is losing then people start to ask why the manager keeps on picking that striker.

    I have no doubt that there are other lines where the catering services could be looked at with a critical eye, but those lines aren't looking down the end of a financial barrel.

    Considering the financial situation - it would seem logical to look at how i) revenue can be increased and ii) costs lowered without people losing their jobs or loss of quality of service.

    It doesn't seem perverse to me to say that the fish & chips + cream tea is overkill and that you could split that offering, lowering costs, and potentially increasing the money coming in.

    Communication has been a problem for the WSR, so again it doesn't seem to be perverse to suggest how that could be improved.

    What is being suggested is frankly low hanging fruit and easy to fix. And lets say you do it and it gives you an extra £5k over the summer, it might not be much but maybe it pays for a bit more infrastructure renewal, or maybe it keeps the bank from the door for a few hours. As Tesco used to tell us 'every little helps'.
     
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  15. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    I'm beginning to feel very sorry for those with concerns about the WSR.

    On the face of it, when the railway is operational it seems to work pretty well and those actually making it happen seem to know what they are doing.

    The railway itself looks pretty smart - stations, rolling stock and locomotives.

    Judging by the locomotives alone, the engineers seem on top of what they are doing.

    Despite all the above, there are major financial problems, we are told. People say that everything we don't see is very flaky and that includes those managing the whole set up plus decisions that ensure the railway keeps operational. Recently, the management of COVID and Seaward Way Crossing come to mind.

    Any attempts to improve this situation are either thwarted or blocked and 40k+ comments on here make not the slightest difference. Ditto at AGMs of any set up associated with the Railway.

    I call this an impasse.
     
  16. Gladiator 5076

    Gladiator 5076 Part of the furniture

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    I do not think it is fair to say "if you can't make a dining service profitable, you must be doing something very wrong"
    Like everything this will be price point sensitive, and possibly at a psycological price point.
    Taking Swanage as an example since I have lived here I have of course seen many dining services whilst linesiding. Most were full, looking at the website often sold out months in advance as soon as bookings opened up. However one year (2018 or 19? all a bit blurred in the memory after the pandemic events) the price went just over £50 (it has been in the high £40's the previous year) and suddenley trains were being seen with quite a few empty seats throughout the year other than things like the weekends near Valentines Day, Mothers Day etc.
    So yes the WSR should be able to make money and it is a valid question are they offering too much food with fish and chips and a cream tea. Really there are two things spring from that
    1) Food waste, how much
    2) Healthy offering? Do those two things combined really meet that?
    3) Just too much food, even most allday railtours seem to have shifted to breakfast an dinner rather than lunch as well which was the offering not too long agao.
     
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  17. granmaree

    granmaree Member

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    Looking at the official page lunch would be put in front of you by 1 o'clock, tea by 5 o'clock, nothing wrong with that? Vegetarian option, gluten free option, chicken and sausage options, what's wrong with that? All pre-booked so no over ordering unless they cover their backs by a couple of extra in case of droppage by staff. If you are looking for healthy options you don't book.
    The thing that irks me the most is yet again the advertising. The picture of the train is ok but are they trying to say they are oozing grease by the weird background design, and why could they not correct the wording 'on a lthe return journey'. In the main text you have two paragraphs repeated, very sloppy yet again. They really do need need to pull their socks up and sort out their public blurbs.
    It cannot be blamed on the commercial apprentice as these sort of things have been going on for years. On the apprentice front I had always understood that they trained under a qualified person in the workplace, does their 'Commercial Officer' have the relevent qualifications or is it somebody that just absorbed the task over the years.
     
  18. Bayard

    Bayard Well-Known Member

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    Why do I have a mental picture of Indiana Jones in the snake pit?
     
  19. Flying Phil

    Flying Phil Part of the furniture

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    I suspect that many on the WSR thought that they were getting a "White Knight" about 4 years ago........
     
  20. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    and ended up with the Black Knight. The financial situation - 'tis but just a scratch'
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2021

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