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GCR 8K/LNER 04 63601

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Flying Phil, Aug 16, 2021.

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  1. Flying Phil

    Flying Phil Part of the furniture

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    This locomotive, owned by the NRM, is undergoing its second major overhaul at Loughborough. The boiler has been removed and sits outside the shed.
    The chassis has been stripped. The crank axle had been badly worn on the eccentric sheaves and a new axle is being made. Here is a picture of the chassis in Lbro shed yesterday.
    DSC00880.JPG
     
    Flying Phil, Aug 16, 2021
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  2. Flying Phil

    Flying Phil Part of the furniture

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    I have found a couple of pictures showing the locomotive after its first return to Steam at L' bro.....and a youthful Craig Stinchcombe! 2019-10-07_20 04 new.JPG 2019-10-07_23 04 + Craig.JPG
     
    Flying Phil, Aug 16, 2021
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  3. Flying Phil

    Flying Phil Part of the furniture

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    The boiler has been moved from the low flat wagon and is on it's side, being worked on, outside Lbro shed. The driving wheels were being cleaned and the frames have been painted.
     
    Flying Phil, Nov 3, 2021
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  4. Flying Phil

    Flying Phil Part of the furniture

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    The front tubeplate of the inner firebox has been removed from the boiler. However it appeared to be riveted to the rest of the inner firebox. Obviously such rivets can be drilled out to remove them, but how can they be put back if the inner firebox is still in place?
    DSC01027.JPG
     
    Flying Phil, Nov 16, 2021
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  5. Richard Roper

    Richard Roper Well-Known Member

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    Deleted.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2021
    Richard Roper, Nov 16, 2021
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  6. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

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    Patch screws. These are inserted from the fire side into threaded holes, then the square end cut off and the head peened over.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    LMS2968, Nov 16, 2021
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  7. Flying Phil

    Flying Phil Part of the furniture

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    Thanks for the explanation - I hadn't realised that there would be sufficient strength for a screwed fixing to be used with just the thread in the inner firebox side sheet.
     
    Flying Phil, Nov 16, 2021
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  8. andalfi1

    andalfi1 Well-Known Member

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    andalfi1, Nov 17, 2021
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  9. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

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    I'm not a boiler smith so don't know, but shear head bolts are used in the motor industry as you say. But those heads look a little too substantial to me to be sheared off like that without stripping threads in the copper plate.
     
    LMS2968, Nov 17, 2021
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  10. andalfi1

    andalfi1 Well-Known Member

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    Looking closely at the photos, there is a machined groove where the square joins the head which, could be a tell tale of a torque limiting measure as a shear groove.
     
    andalfi1, Nov 17, 2021
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  11. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

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    Yep - agree!
     
    LMS2968, Nov 17, 2021
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  12. Cosmo Bonsor

    Cosmo Bonsor Member

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    Patch screws in a lap joint is a routine repair.

    The steel rivets are gas cut out in alternate holes. It's dead easy because you can't easily damage the copper plate. This keeps the plates tight together, you wouldn't punch them out.
    You then tap a thread 11 tpi Whit form at what ever diameter gives you a full form thread. The adjacent numbers in the pic are almost certainly the size of the hole.
    Next countersink the hole. From memory its 60 deg for a copper screw and 80 deg for a steel one, but I might have miss remembered that detail. There has to be a couple of threads in the water side too.
    Drive the screw in using the square. I put a few stokes of a saw cut on the undercut. Tighten it until the square wrings off. I think I might have used some Stag on the threads, it smells of pine smoke.
    Then caulk the screw head into the plate. Use a clockwise motion on the tool to tighten the screw as you do it. Try not to undercut or groove the plate.
    Rinse and repeat. Easy peasy.
    I've done loads. Not any more thankfully.

    Edit: Spelling, added more info.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2021
    Cosmo Bonsor, Nov 17, 2021
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  13. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    It's 80 deg for copper and 60 deg for steel, but it is relative to the plate material and not the patch screw. You tap both plates if they are copper but only the underside plate if they are steel. More info in the HRA guidance note for those interested:
    https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...1511180393068/HGR-B9025-Is01-Patch+Screws.pdf
    The GWR developed means of riveting seams with the firebox in situ using long tongs and wedges and this was copied by the LMS when Stanier went to them. I believe this is practiced on the Severn Valley but, although I've been shown the necessary tools, I've never seen it done. It is described in the HRA guidance note on riveting:
    https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...29/HGR-B9023-Is01-Steel+Rivets+&+Riveting.pdf
     
    Steve, Nov 17, 2021
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  14. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Part of the furniture

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    The photos are of 2968's firebox under repair on the Severn Valley, 26 July 2020.
     
    LMS2968, Nov 17, 2021
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  15. Cosmo Bonsor

    Cosmo Bonsor Member

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    Yes, you are right.
    I knew I'd forgotten some details.
    It's been the best part of 10 years since I did a lot of boiler work, I'm glad to say.
     
    Cosmo Bonsor, Nov 17, 2021
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  16. daveannjon

    daveannjon Well-Known Member

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    Is the NRM funding the work at all?

    Dave
     
    daveannjon, Nov 18, 2021
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  17. Flying Phil

    Flying Phil Part of the furniture

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    Re the NRM, I've heard of no details, but I'm sure there will be a contract between the GCR and NRM which probably involves NRM financing some materials, GCR funding work time and running on GCR for a certain no of months/years....but it is no doubt "commercially sensitive"!
     
    Flying Phil, Nov 18, 2021
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  18. Flying Phil

    Flying Phil Part of the furniture

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    DSC01173.JPG Here is a closer picture of the front of the firebox inside.
     
    Flying Phil, Dec 12, 2021
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  19. Flying Phil

    Flying Phil Part of the furniture

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    According to the latest "Main Line" magazine (#190) the foundation ring is life expired and will be replaced by a new one (casting or fabrication?)
     
    Flying Phil, Mar 13, 2022
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  20. Flying Phil

    Flying Phil Part of the furniture

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    Some work is being done on the frames and it looks like the axleboxes are being re-white metalled. There is no sign of the fourth pair of driving wheels and axle ( A new axle has had to be manufactured and machined for the slide valve eccentrics.).
    DSC01540ss.jpg
     
    Flying Phil, Apr 11, 2022
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