West Somerset Railway General Discussion

I don’t disagree. But interpreting what the answer to that is often tricky, and applying cost plus margin calculations frequently prompts different thoughts


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I guess it depends on why people are on the railway. Those on the railway because they are interested in heritage or steam may well want to get a look behind the scenes in the loco shed but Mr & Mrs Joe Public who have just come to take the kids for a ride on a train may not be so interested. They might well appreciate somewhere they can let the kids run riot and let off steam ('scuse the pun) for an hour or so.
It's important to remember that about 80% - 90% of people on here are railway enthusiasts so its hard not to assume that the whole world is like that when, in fact, train rider/enthusiast ratios, especially at a holiday resort location are probably exactly the opposite.
Didn't someone mention a petting zoo sometime back??

 

I asked for it to be split, I was told finance of all preserved railways was appropriate thread drift from the WSR. Make of that What you will.

 

Like so much else in such discussions, I'll take hard market research over confirmation bias any day of the week. Reason?

Following assertions about the visitor demographic of our lines, I watched several clips which led me to these conclusions:

●During periods where decent weather coincides with school holidays, yes .... there usually are a decent proportion of families visible

●Many gala events and other than during the conditions above, the majority seem to be noticeably older, often couples and their beloved dogs outnumber children. With the galas, how many, I wonder, are life members turning out for their line's premier event, how many are organised coach trip customers and how many 'Mr & Mrs Public'?

●Despite lack of mention in discussions here, single gricers are notably visible on platforms and trains at all times.

Bring up a few clips of any line you choose. 2020/21 were exceptional, of course, but generally, pretty much anything you watch from the past 10 years shows the same patterns.

 

Yes I would like to see some proper market research results on the reason people travelled. I would like to think that at least all the big lines have undertaken some sort of exercise on this, but of course lots of folks do not want to answer questions of be bothered to fill in forms. Otherwise we are just all shooting in the dark really, but I suspect seaside lines, WSR, Swanage, NYMR may have a slightly different result to say somewhere like the KWVR (as an example).
I do sort of agree with @Big Al that at £30 the price is at the high end. Having said that BL just abouts meets my (approx ) 2 hours by car each way from Swanage criteria for a day out. But add fuel costs, maybe lunch and it perhaps become more than I am prepared to pay (rather than can afford) for a few pictures and a 25mph trundle through some attractive countryside.

 

I think that is not a serious suggestion - however, in case anyone thinks it might be, ---
The furry animal market seems to be covered, by Tropiquaria [which is excellent but useless from the WSR perspective, and quite expensive] and by Doniford Farm Park which seems to have re-opened its pet area, [see Facebook web site] and is free of charge, and a short easy walk from Doniford station. But the Paul Hitch question again, do you entice people away from the railway when you want them to buy meals and souvenirs from WSR ? Set up your own petting zoo and you are into staffing issues, [feeding, cleaning, supervision,] winter housing, animal welfare. Families enjoying the animals without riding on the railway.

 

Depends on what they plan on doing with the station and yard.

 

Well, as my name is mentioned specifically, here we go.
A lot of these places have been operating for decades and frankly, have done little to provide ancillary attractions which would attract visitors to hang around after their ride or to break their journey Things such as workshop viewing areas, visitor centres, museums, woodland walks and miniature railways do exist in places but usually spasmodically. The Washford business on the WSR is a prime absurdity. Here there was an ancillary attraction. Now there isn't one

 

One point about the WSR v (Say) The Watercress line is that because of the length of time the journey takes, firstly adding in (say) a visit to a hypothetical attraction at Washford (Derelict Shed?) it adds a lot of time to the day. Also of course with the two train service there is roughly a train an hour from Ropley compared with one every two hours from Washford.

 

and that in a nut shell is IMHO the 'problem' with the WSR, it was the 'wrong' choice from an economics point of view to preserve. A shorter line, running from somewhere to somewhere would not have many of the issues that bedevil the WSR.

of course, railway preservation isn't a rational world, for the most part.

 

You can make a lot of arguments there are number of railways that have issues and weren't prime to save, but those that were saved are here today.

 

I would tend to describe the WSR as the 'Pub Meal' of the Railway World, plain fare well done and plenty of it compared with the 'Haute Cuisine' of The Bluebell with much smaller portion sizes.

What the WSR is though is a very good ride, in time terms its about as long as Bristol to London. Up Hill and Down Dale - twice. Through hills and woods then to the sea.

I suggest that thats what needs to be its selling point so work on it!

 

Not all are 'here today'

 

The vast majority. Most that have not survived didn't really get off the ground or were steam centres.

 

This is a bit of a tangent from my point that if preserved railways were preserved because of their long term ability to survive, I doubt the W SR would have made the cut. Doesn't mean I want it to fail, but IMO it is and has been for a number of years running on empty and has no coherent published plans to get its self out of the hole caused by much mismanagement over the years.

 

Not really, you made the point the WSR shouldn't have been preserved due to it's length, despite there being similar sized railways such as the SVR and NYMR that have a lot more ongoing issues and major structures to account for. All have come this far.

The railway has just appointed a new GM. Give her chance.

 

both of which have raised and continue to raise substantial sums of money year in year out.

 

So? Without them they'd be not running.

 

I think you are slightly missing the point.

Take the formulation that in cash terms, any railway, of any size, has to cover its direct operating costs, plus overhaul its locos, carriages, infrastructure and so on at a “break even rate” - ie the condition of all that should be no worse on December 31 than it was on January 1 each year. If you are not doing that, you are on the road to closure - it may take time, but it is inevitable.

Where you get the cash from doesn’t actually matter. If two railways both fail to generate enough from commercial income, but one has a strong fundraising ability and one doesn’t, then one survives and the other doesn’t.

So of course it’s true - “without [fundraising] they wouldn’t be running”. But they are successful at raising funds. That’s to be applauded, not sniffed at. No good going to the wall with the purity of not having had to rely on altruistic donation …

The WSR is seemingly not generating enough cash, year-on-year, to pay for its upkeep. But critically, it doesn’t appear to have a plan to address that beyond “something will turn up”.

Tom