Flying Scotsman

In the minds of many of my generation and those in the decades after, that picture ' is ' Flying Scotsman, that is what thousands of people put hands in pockets to save. IMO the fact that she was the last of her class meant very little to most of them, the fact that in BR service she did not look like that was irrelevant.
We did not buy an artefact for the NRM to restore , we handed them a National Icon. Whether its a money thing or in deference to those older than myself that saw and worked on 60103 as a BR Engine that she continues in her current guise - that is fair enough. but at some time in the future that picture is what I want to see 'realised'.

 

I think that's the thing many of us are genuinely worried about. The last time she was in apple green was the 00s. That's nearing the 20 year mark, and to be frank, for the icon that she is, that's not good enough.

The work done to restore her as she is to 60103 was fantastic, the attention to detail (particularly the split handrail/numberplate/etc) appreciated, but we are at the point in the game that she should rightly be back in LNER livery soon.

I would actually settle for the unhappy compromise of the hybrid BR form and LNER livery - the point being, this is the centenary of the world's arguably most famous steam locomotive, and she should be in the livery that made her famous the world over.

She didn't do 100mph, the non stop run, the last non stop run, crossed two continents and did the longest continuous run by a steam locomotive in BR livery, she did it all in LNER apple green.

At the end of the day, if enough people apply pressure, the museum should do a rethink. If they are overhauling her anyway, a repaint is easy enough to sort.

 

There is an educational aspect to railway preservation in recreating a past age, it’s what museums should be about, working or otherwise As configured now with a train of Mk1s it recreates a scene from the the early 60s, a part of the history of the A3s. In single chimney form on the SVR with the teaks we are back in the 30s. In its hybrid form it’s historically meaningless.
What a pity Alan Peglar didn’t buy Humorist!

 

Personally I think the hybrid version is the worst of the three options. She just didn't look right. Yes, Humorist maybe did appear in that guise, but FS didn't (except for those Marchington years) and it wouldn't be an accurate account of the history of that locomotive.

I remember seeing 4472 back in the '8o's with the single chimney and yes, it was aesthetically pleasing and yes, it would be nice to see her return to that Peglar guise but, if she is to remain on the mainline, is that at a cost to performance and accessibility? I'm no engineering expert so won't comment on the pros and cons of the double chimney Kylchap v. single chimney Blastpipe. Also, there is the cost. We are still in a pandemic. There is a war raging in Eastern Europe. The cost of living is rising faster than income and that will affect not only the man and woman on the street, but also businesses, entertainment venues, heritage sites and museums. The NRM cannot charge for entry so rely heavily on secondary income from merchandise sales and loans. If people cannot afford to visit and make these purchases, income will be depleted. The NRM is not the FS (although many believe it is) and quite rightly have a duty of care for all their assets. Should they make the changes and bring FS back to the popular Peglar version, then I fear she will do so as a stuffed and mounted exhibit to reduce costs. Just like Duchess of Hamilton has been with the very aesthetically pleasing casing put back on.

Maybe one day, when all this grief in the world is over and we return to some kind of normality, the money will be there to return the Apple Green and single chimney to this icon but until then, she still draws the crowds and while she does, the money making machine will do its part in helping protect and preserve its future and legacy.

 

Oh, I completely agree John, but the pragmatist in me says that there has to be some form of compromise if we are to achieve a Gresley A3 in LNER apple green livery in its centenary year. If they're not willing to shell out for a single chimney downgrade/restoration/call it what you will/etc then a repaint is the only option.

 

Damned shame Papyrus didn't make it to preservation. A worthy candidate, if ever there was one. We could've had one in each livery. Ho-hum ..... can't win 'em all.

 

I got excited when I started reading that sentence and thought there was a new book in the offing!

 

For the record: she definitely did do 100mph!

 

I’m of the opinion that the only authentic livery for a locomotive is the one which the owner applies. (as it has always been). However, original livery would be a very nice touch though. As for the other ancillary bits and bobs it might be hard to make a business case for them.


But, if I could rip the ears off just one loco…!

 

Well there are a couple in the strategic reser.....arghhh

 

Exactly. 'Its got to be completely authentic except for all the bits that aren't authentic in the least' is a bit of a logical problem for me. I also note the lack of filth, sloppy maintenance and unmotivated staff, not to mention the bizarre combinations of locomotive and rolling stock. Personally I regard BR livery on a pre BR design as being akin to prison uniform. Authenticity is a museum's job.

 

You obviously weren’t around back in the day to see how Kings Cross used to turn out their top link locos. Have a look at some of the Eric Treacy pictures taken back then

 

The NRM have consistently said that they'd put Scotsman in the most appropriate livery for its current condition, which is currently BR Green - even if like many others, I feel that this is its least attractive. So I doubt they'd repaint into apple green unless they also did the associated work.

For what it's worth, as a kid I thought there must be two locos called Flying Scotsman - one was 60103 in dark green with smoke deflectors, the other 4472 in Apple Green without. It just looked so different in each guise to me that it never occurred to me it could be the same loco. Wonder if thats thrown many members of the general public? Or maybe i was just a weird kid.

 

Oooof. Not sure I agree. In the right circumstances it looks absolutely stunning. '28 wears it exceptionally well as do many locos - and I don't think we would argue for Royal Scot to go back to the pinkish shades its had in the past, for example!

The issue here is the nature of the circumstances. 100th anniversary. It comes around just once. If we're not going to celebrate Scotsman's achievements as an LNER loco and as an LNER liveried loco then - when are we?

I personally think the museum is missing a big trick here. 100th anniversary and the opportunity to celebrate its successes.

 

Especially Gateshead pacifics.

 

Frankly Ian Riley is relieved that Flying Scotsman will be staying as it is. Riley’s will be maintaining until at least the end of 2023 and that will in my opinion almost certainly be extended. Scotsman’s mainline ticket runs out in 2029 and it may never run on the mainline after that. It will then run on preserved railways for 3 years until 2032. After that it may never run again and that is a sad thought. For all Scotsman’s popularity people like Laura Tobin would stop it running immediately because of Climate Change.

 

Is that a verifiable fact, or just your opinion?

Has Laura Tobin made any comments surrounding steam loco operation, or are you making a rash assumption?

 

As far as I know she has a zero tolerance of coal under any circumstance. A lot of young people especially girls have a zero tolerance of steam locomotives because of coal usage.

 

I wouldn’t exactly say that’s a fact…

 

So its just a wild assumption then, like most of that post. Thanks for clarifying