Sunset Steam Express. Selected Tuesdays, July/August 2022 (Windsor trips cancelled)

This is a good point. The most obvious change in circumstances is the increased need for "insurance" against the steam loco failing or having insufficient power/traction for a heavy train. But that's not the whole story, because some trips still run without a diesel. What else has changed, just in the last few years, to cause a much higher proportion of trains to have diesel assistance?

 

Alan- there you go banging this drum again. What an absolute load of bull! I can assure you that operators have far more challanges on their plate to worry about than to make a point of deliberately slipping anything under the wire to deceive or annoy anyone. None of this is done as a con, as you imply. There is a degree of evolutionary process here, largely dictated by the 21st century that we now live in. Many of us we are just thankful that "nearly all operators" are still prepared to face the challanges needed to keep steam running on the network at all. There has to be some compromise in this process as you well know. Believe me it would be so easy for them to just walk away and leave us with nothing. Your constant sniping at this causes quite unnecessary irritation to those trying to keep steam on the road. Please give it a rest.

Peter

 

Last time I was in touch with UKRT, I was informed that there are two unassisted trips later this year for 35028 in the pipeline. Given that the UKRT website currently shows no tours after August, hopefully these tours will actually happen and details will appear soon.

Also, the RTC Dorset Coast Express trips are meant to be unassisted - or rather, the "assistance" consists of 31806 from Weymouth to Southampton, which shouldn't elicit any complaints! Unfortunately, running the train as advertised is conditional on the weather not being too hot and the New Forest not being bone dry. It would be good if RTC could run a couple of these trains in, say April or May when this is less likely to be a problem, but it boils down to among other things, loco and support crew availability.

 

A diesel on the back doesn’t necessarily mean assistance, when it’s necessary on the Belmond it’s just another 80 tons for Clan Line to haul.

 

I don’t think it’s about insurance in most cases. The railway has changed, with most trains now consisting of sets of self shunting coaches a lot of station and yard layouts have been simplified, Bristol Temple Meads is a good example. On top of that the signalling centre can be miles away operated by people who often don’t know what they are dealing with. Much simpler to top and tail the train for shunting purposes

 

That's all true, but most of it was already true several years ago, when far fewer trains had a diesel at the back. So something else must have changed.

 

I suppose what is being challenged is whether any tour promoter can actually say that with complete confidence any more. Similarly, I keep looking at the rather attractive Pathfinder tour on Sept 3 where the words in the blurb are ' We soon reach Carnforth to exchange our prosaic diesel for the 'poetry in motion' of steam, expected in the shape of Bulleid Pacific 34067 Tangmere.' What do those words mean? Do I risk my £129 or not? My guess is that the final decision by the TOC, possibly with NR input, will not happen until a few days before the trip.

No complaints, that's how it works, exactly how @RalphW put it thirty posts back.

 

And the issue there is the old one about what is fair advertising. "Expected in the shape of..." implies near certainty; "We are planning to use xyz subject to the availability of this historic machine" conveys the same intent but also the inherent uncertainty.

The question though is whether those who'd book for a specific locomotive are aware of that uncertainty - and increasingly I'd suggest they will be; it will be the non-enthusiast who stands to be caught by surprise but who is likely, by and large, not to be so bothered.

 

But might be more a problem is filling the train. As has been said many times before most of the passengers will not be out and out enthusiasts. Yes you can have some cracking days weather wise in April or May, but also some very cold, wet and miserable days. How many tours steam or diesel go to any seaside town with a stopover of more than about 1 hour that are not in the summer months? Also many seaside venues are not fully open in those months, restaurants shut in the day or closing early as an example. People need something to do when they get there, at least if you are hoping they may come back again on a tour in the future.

 

I think the thing is that these Windsor trains are really not for enthusiasts are they and thus the target audience will be less upset by the change in accommodation, albeit even they may wonder what all the fuss is about if they have no indication about what is hauling them bar the occasional drift of steam/smoke past the window.

Would be interesting to compare how things would have been if it were WCR who suddenly replaced maroon Mk1's with raspberry ripple mk3's on trains, I imagine the response from certain posters would have been somewhat less forgiving and sanguine?

 

Actually my issue is with the meaning of 'exchange' rather than 'expected', but both are risks to be assessed I agree.

 

DB operation. Different ball game.

 

Yes much the same with me. Looking back to my notebooks there was a huge amount of pure steam including round Kent. Where is it now? Getting quite difficult to find things for my column now

 

Its a standard CME path so it should be DL free

 

So why have SD made a point of saying that passengers may be booked in a different type of carriage? Because their passengers are expecting something a tad more steam age?

 

A post on wnxx says that an email has been issued pulling the rest of the sunset tours, although they still appear to be bookable if you drill down into the website. Alleged due to complaints about the Mk3's, not sure if this is the situation or not.

 

Both the Windsors and the Sunset tours are showing as sold out when you go through the booking system.

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We each have our own perspective on the subject of steam-only main line trains, and different levels of acceptance. Reading through the variety of posts on this topic, would it be fair to conclude that the party is just about over in terms of pure main line steam? Or is a more optimistic view still tenable?